Thanks alot, Israel...

[Bort]

Israel likely has no greater friend than the United States, yet they were more than willing to export the design of the Lavi, a cancelled Israeli fighter funded by US bucks to the Chinese. Their new J-10 looks and performs an awful lot like the Lavi. Oh, Israel...
The story:http://atimes.com/atimes/China/DL04Ad01.html

The Lavi

The J-10

[Ducimus]

Looks like an F16.

[TteFAboB]

I hope there's a secret transponder built-in, so well hidden not even Israelis would be able to find it if they wanted to, and a remote satellite pilot ejection device, besides from the usual self-destruction system, just in case the ejector seat fails.

Because that's what the Chinese put inside the industrial goods they export to us, you know.

[bradclark1]

Clinton gives them missile technology, Israel gives them Jet Fighters. Gee, nothing like shooting yourself in the head!!!!

[scandium]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Looks like an F16.

Doesn't look like any F-16 I've ever seen.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by scandium

Doesn't look like any F-16 I've ever seen.

[lesrae]

Originally Posted by scandium

Doesn't look like any F-16 I've ever seen.

From that angle I agree with Ducimus, it has strong similarities in the radome, intake and cockpit areas.

http://www.afterburnerseminars.com/r...hi_res/F16.jpg

Edit: Started writing this before Ducimus reply showed up

[Ducimus]

Im not saying it IS an F16, only it looks like one, obviously VERY closely related to one,and derived from F16 technology aquired from the US. THey may as well have given china an F16 for all intents and purposes.

The only MAJOR visible difference between the two planes from the pics above is the front winglet on isreals version.

[Happy Times]

http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/j10.asp

[TLAM Strike]

No worries we got the 100 mile range AIM-54 Phoenixes to deal with them before they are even in our area... Oh wait... Sh!t!

[Bort]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

No worries we got the 100 mile range AIM-54 Phoenixes to deal with them before they are even in our area... Oh wait... Sh!t!

:rotfl:

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by lesrae

From that angle I agree with Ducimus, it has strong similarities in the radome, intake and cockpit areas.

http://www.afterburnerseminars.com/r...hi_res/F16.jpg

Edit: Started writing this before Ducimus reply showed up

The Lavi, and now the J-10 was an F-16 improvement program. Yes it is an F-16 with forward canards. Wings, Body, and Tail are all the same. I assume the J-10 probably has Isreali avionics though, but at a cost of only $10 mil a copy, it is actually more likely to have Russian, possibly MiG-21 type avionics. Regardless, with a engine like that in it, it is probably a very agile dogfighter.

There is one disadvatage to this J-10 however - with that engine in it, it has got to be extremely short ranged (the Russian engines are fuel hungry and you need a platform like the SU-27 to carry enough fuel) - so just run it our of gas like the Isrealies did to the Syrian MiG's way back when.

The F-16 only holds 7200 lbs of fuel - which is fine for the P&W and GE engines it is supposed to carry,

-S

[kiwi_2005]

They sold it to the chinese?!? Money the root of all evil

Oh well NZ sold there airforce altogether!

[DeepSix]

To go out on what I am sure will be a controversial limb (although not for the sake of stirring any up, though): I don't like the idea of selling military tech to the Chinese either; however, as others have pointed out, it's an F-16 in shape and wing, but not necessarily in other ways. Even if it does not use the fuel hungry Russian engines, it still lacks the range of new birds like the F/A-22, which can cruise at supersonic speed.

A lot of how you look at this depends on how you look at air doctrine. The U.S. seems to be moving back toward the tactical bomber role after the last couple decades of favoring air superiority (they sneak in the "A" in the model number; I think even the F-117 was originally conceived as a "B-x" or "A-x" plane). I'm not saying one doctrine's better than another, just that the U.S. seems to go in cycles. In the late 50s and early 60s it was all about higher and faster, then it evolved into favoring maneuver. The F(A)-22 may or may not be the ultimate fighter, but IMO the U.S. is still setting the pace in terms of R&D. Selling the J-10 *may* not be giving away as much as we think.

Just my opinion.

[Abraham]

Although there are certainly similarities between the F 16 and the Lavi, it still is a completely new all-Israeli design, using some of the F 16 innovative features. If you realise that the F 16 is a mid-wing plane and the Lavi a low-wing plane, you'll appreciate that the fuselage construction is completely different.
The Lavi has capabilities comparable to the F 16C.

The Lavi had a very checkred history, being an Israeli prestige object, funded by US Dollars and intended to be independant of the US aircraft industry (and to compete with the US industry in Latin America!).
The US got fed up with the Israeli attitude (basically demanding a $ 500 M per year grant over the develloping period!) during the years long Lavi negotiations and found that Isreal's security interest was better served by buying cheaper F 16's and ordering 3 submarines in Germany. This was consequently decided.

Obviously Israel found a new possibility to recoup some money out of the failed project.

P.S. I once (I think in 2000) saw the only prototype when I was leaving Ben Gurion airport; painted white, beautifull plane.

For an inside look into this US-Israeli political crisis, read: "Flight of the Lavi" by Dov S. Zakheim (Brassey's Inc. ISBN 1-57488-065-9).