Real WestPac Sailors- question

[swdw]

My patrols were in the Atlantic so I have a question for you WestPac guys.

Is the water at sea as transparent as it is in SH4? Even on swim call in the Carribean, it wasn't as clear as the water in SH4 and ROW, is that the way it is in the big pond?

The Pearl water seems way too clear compared to Atlantic ports, but then again, is that a difference between the 2 oceans?

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, lets look a few things. I never went to the Pacific but I would suspect that waters were not as polluted and did infact looked that clear. Search the net for pictures. The Caribean waters are very clear and very much like the waters and Pacific. Even the waters in the nasty Inner Harbor of Baltimore where the Torsk is berthed I can see at least 6-10 inches down unless there is a floater (dead body) in the way . That water is a nasty as it can be in that harbor. Fish flee that place Anyway, I believe salinity plays a factor on what type of life that floads in the water can live in either location. So high salinity produces more of these floating living creaters that obscure the water. Just a thought here on that. Because you Maine lobster is very different than the lobster you find in the south.

[JREX53]

I was stationed in Pearl Harbor, on the Bonefish (S582) and the Abraham Lincoln (SSBN602) Gold. The harbor is probably as polluted as any other harbor. When you actually get out on the ocean it is pretty clean for the most part, but you could still only see about 10 to 20 feet down during the best of times. The clearest water I ever saw was around Guam.

Jim IC1(SS)

[MONOLITH]

swdw..you were on the USS Permit?

[Sailor Steve]

Sailing out of Subic Bay in the spring of '70, I was off duty and on the signal bridge of our destroyer. The water was clear enough that we could see rocks and plants on the bottom, and the dolphins swimming back and forth under the ship. I don't know the exact depth, but it had to be deep enough for the biggest carriers to pass.

[DeepIron]

I was stationed on Guam and did a few WestPacs in the mid-late 70's... The water was indeed almost crystal clear in places. I remember scuba diving off the reef outside of Agana on Guam and looking for what must of have literally a few hundred feet down the reef until it was lost in the darkness...

[Torpex752]

I agree with Jim, Guam was crystal clear. Although PH did clean up its act and in 1996-1999 it was pretty clean. In my opinion though SH4 is too clear compared to what I saw.

[sunvalleyslim]

swdw,
The harbors in any port are never clear. But I can tell you the rest of the Pacific during the sixties was pristine. We stopped and had a few swim calls during my WestPac in '69. believe me it was that clear. I was a diver and torpedoman on the USS Segundo SS-398, and you could be on the surface, look underwater and see the keel of the boat.................It was awesome.....

[TarJak]

Like anything environmental it depends on where you are and the conditions at the time. There are some fantastically clear waters in WPac and there are some very cloudy/polluted waters. Anytime there is any kind of disturbance the water gets cloudier. Clearest water I've seen is in the Whitsunday's off Queensland at the southern end of the Gt Barrier Reef. Some days though you get very cloudy water or bad conditions due to poor light.

[Skyhawk]

Completely agree with the statements of "TarJak" regarding evironemental effects. As far as the original question of this thread goes, I again defer to "Tarjak's" comments, yup, it depends . . .

Personal experience: As a Marine made a WestPac tour as ship's company onboard the U.S.S. New Orleans in '86.

Departed from San Diego and transitioned through PH both outbound and on the return. Made port in PH, Phillipine Islands (Subic Bay), Korea, Hong Kong, Japan (Sasebo), and also got to see Iwo Jima in transit from the Phillipines to Indonesia (where we provided security for presidential visits to Bali/Singapore). Yup, joined the ranks of the trusty "shellbacks" on that deviation to Indonesia.

In my experience:
Worst harbor water: Hong Kong (it stank and was full of floating debris/garbage, water clarity was next to nothing).
Clearest oceanic water: Anywhere in the vicinity of the Indonesian Islands.

Semper Fi

[swdw]

Yeesh that's amazing to me. Couldn't see more than 2-3 feet down in some places and maybe 20 feet in the carribean. Little less off Florida. Mare Island was not that great either.

We were in deep water on our swim calls so no reflected light off the bottom like you get in really clear water. Makes me jealous

Monolith- the answer is yes, but for a short time- I transfered to the Guitarro on a swap for humanitarian reasons when the Permit completed sea trials after her overhaul and S5W to S3G core changeover - if you want details. PM me

[MONOLITH]

Originally Posted by swdw

Monolith- the answer is yes, but for a short time- I transfered to the Guitarro on a swap for humanitarian reasons when the Permit completed sea trials after her overhaul and S5W to S3G core changeover - if you want details. PM me

No, I was just trying to clarify my own personal history knowledge.

You said all your patrols were in the Atlantic, and I though both the Permit and the Guitarro were pacific only.

I thought only the Jackson went to the Atlantic theater, from '70 to '95, after 5 years sailing out of Guam.

[swdw]

Originally Posted by MONOLITH

No, I was just trying to clarify my own personal history knowledge.

You said all your patrols were in the Atlantic, and I though both the Permit and the Guitarro were pacific only.

I thought only the Jackson went to the Atlantic theater, from '70 to '95, after 5 years sailing out of Guam.

Your info is correct. To avoid any confusion I'll give a brief bio. From another post you made in another topic, I got the feeling you might think I was blowing smoke. No offense taken, cuz the partial info in other posts would make it seem that way.

I was on the Stoney J in the late 70's and early 80's.

Transferred to the Permit, completed over haul, sea trials and did the aforementioned transfer to the Guitarro as she came into Mare Island. Was discharged due for humanitarian reasons (loss of spouse, had a 2 year old) before she completed her overhaul. Nuff said on that part of it. Otherwise, was planning on doing the full 20 as I was almost halfway there.

So, yes your info is correct and no I'm not just throwing boat names in my sig.

I got out as an ET1 (SS) nuke. They now call them RT's, we were also called RO's for reactor operator (and other nicknames we won't discuss in polite company ). Qualified on all 3 subs, qualified as Reator operator, electric plant operator, steam plant operator, Aux electrical watch and Aux machinery space watch on all of them, plus associated shutdown watches. Qualified as Enginieering Watch Supervisor (EWS) on the last 2. Unofocially qualified as sonar watch on the SJ (unofficial because a nuke's security clearance is "Secret" and you have to have a "Top Secret" to qualify in writing as sonar watch). Also had duty as a bridge phone talker because the CO was of the opinion nukes were the best at that job (not really true, but hey- he's the man in charge)

Was on the Stoney J when she was backfitted to carry the Trident C-4, and we actually got to test fire the missles (with a dummy payload), as we were the first Lafayette class boat outfitted as such.

Since we were the quitest boat in the Atlantic before the Tridents, we got to play aggressor numerous times coming off patrol- very fun stuff. Am on the Roster here under Sam Walker- click on sailing lists/engineering/rc division http://www.ssbn634.com/

Haven't been added to the Permit contact list as it hasn't been updated since I sent my contact info.

Got to do lots of other cool stuff, but like most of us ex bubbleheads, don't talk about it- pisses my wife off sometimes . (And because there's 2 reasons the submarine service is called the "Silent Service" . Some of the info in Blind Man's Bluff ticks me off because it shouldn't have been made public in my opinion)

[Snowman999]

I was on the Stoney J in the late 70's and early 80's.

We crossed paths. I was in the Gold crew late 1981-summer 1984.

Was on the Stoney J when she was backfitted to carry the Trident C-4, and we actually got to test fire the missles (with a dummy payload), as we were the first Lafayette class boat outfitted as such.

Think you're misremembering. The Bluies fired the bird (Capt. Tuma.) I have a framed photo. We did everything but.

The DASO was my first at-sea time on Stoney-J; I remember it as day-after-day of not knowing what the hell was going on. I DO recall your division needed a specialized wiring harness for one of the RC cabinets, and having to tell the duty officer at NSC Charleston to authorize a Sunday-afternoon $17,000 Lear-jet charter to fly it into Patrick AFB so we could get underway with the range ship and do DASO ops on Monday. Came down to the pier by courier at dawn on Monday. I can still see your chief (real tall, skinny guy with glasses, really quiet, good guy) on the missile deck ripping open the box and holding the contacts about 1/4 inch from his glasses to make sure it was the right one, then bombing down the AMR1 hatch to install it for the pre-crit.

[swdw]

Originally Posted by Snowman999

We crossed paths. I was in the Gold crew late 1981-summer 1984.

Think you're misremembering. The Bluies fired the bird (Capt. Tuma.) I have a framed photo. We did everything but.

Oops you're right, got my DASO's mixed up, we launched the Poseiden after the overhaul and I think we were still the combined crew at that point. I was on her through the entire Poseiden DASO ops cuz I was also on her for the last 4 months of the overhaul at Portsmouth before she left for Charleston. The LPO of RC division at that time was Jerry Shadley who was a 6'2" heavy guy who was a Firtst Class ET, not a chief. I remember trying to ge t his 230+ pound frame down the hatch without him falling down the ladder after a night in Cocao Beach.

The guy you remember that was tall and skinny came on later as a ET1 and then made chief. That was on my 2nd or 3rd patrol if I remember correctly.

Believe it or not, there was a Congressional investigation over those contacts, as it was the last straw in a string of bad problems on different boats caused by the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard and it caused the PNS to lose their contract. I submitted the report to the eng about what was wrong and how the shipyard had screwed up figuring that was it. He forwarded the report to the powers that be which started the whole fracas. I had to prove every word from the manuals or face a court martial. Thank God I'd done my research and dotted all my i's and crossed all my t's before submitting the report.

Trying to remember time wise, were you on her when Ensign Funderberg (sp?) almost sank us?

And were you on her when all the muppet "mascots" were kidnapped during a patrol? That was funny! :rotfl:

Too bad you missed the fun in Ft Lauderdale when the protestors tried to cross the gangplank

Guess any more reminiscing should be dome via PM so we don't bore people to death.