Historically who gets the credit? -The Boat or the Captain and Crew

[sqk7744]

Here's a good question folks, originally posted by Lagger123987
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...5&postcount=83

SITUATION:
1) 11+ War Patrols in the USS Bowfin with tons of kills on the conning tower

2) Just transferred to a new boat along with the crew.

QUESTIONS:
In RL, Historically Who gets the credit?

1) The Boat or the Captain and Crew?
2) Can you keep your Bowfin (previous) kills and paint them on the new boat?
3) Did the entire Crew stay with the old boat or move to the new one?
4) Does total tonnage follow the captain or the boat?


Thanks, will be interesting to see/hear the results

[John Channing]

From memory...

1) The Boat is credited with the kills, the Captain gets the tonnage

2) No

3) Crew members were rotated out regularly, regardless of whether or not you were gong to a new boat.

4) The Captain

JCC

[sqk7744]

Originally Posted by John Channing

From memory...

1) The Boat is credited with the kills, the Captain gets the tonnage

2) No

3) Crew members were rotated out regularly, regardless of whether or not you were gong to a new boat.

4) The Captain

JCC

Thanks for the posting JCC and thanks for the input!

Will be a big help in doing Kill Flags for Captains with many patrols in one boat, and then get a chance for a new command.

Me thinks this might add to the decision to take that command transfer.

Cheers,





--

[Sailor Steve]

I can't add to what John said, but just to clarify #3, roughly 1/3 of the crew was rotated out after each patrol. That way new green recruits had the benifit of working with experienced hands and learning from them.

[sqk7744]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I can't add to what John said, but just to clarify #3, roughly 1/3 of the crew was rotated out after each patrol. That way new green recruits had the benifit of working with experienced hands and learning from them.

Thanks for the info sir!

[SteamWake]

The boat was the machine.

The crew was the force behind the machine.

The Capitan was the helm of the force.

Guess how I voted..... :p

[sqk7744]

[Frederf]

That still leaves the question of what did the 2/3rds of the crew not being rotated out did when the captain changed boats.

[sqk7744]

Originally Posted by Frederf

That still leaves the question of what did the 2/3rds of the crew not being rotated out did when the captain changed boats.

Good point. So besides a celebration when an unpopular captain left, did the XO, COB, and section heads, Engineering, etc stay on?

[Sailor Steve]

I'm only guessing, but I'll bet the captain had his choice, at least where the officers and COB were concerned. Someone not being transferred to shore duty probably had enough pull (renown?) to get most of what he wanted.

[sqk7744]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I'm only guessing, but I'll bet the captain had his choice, at least where the officers and COB were concerned. Someone not being transferred to shore duty probably had enough pull (renown?) to get most of what he wanted.

Sounds logical. And those that new the boat well (engineering, etc ) would be encourage to stay on right?

[Crosseye76]

Originally Posted by sqk7744

Good point. So besides a celebration when an unpopular captain left, did the XO, COB, and section heads, Engineering, etc stay on?

Sometimes. As was pointed out earlier, some of the crew went to different boats or duty, and new men came in. The same went for officers.

Take for example, the Wahoo, under Mush Morton. His superb wardroom of George Grider, Roger Paine and Dick O'Kane went on to other boats, and also to commands of their own. They were not aboard Wahoo on her final patrol. And, of course, Mush himself took command of Wahoo from Pinky Kennedy.

Another example, after the Puffer had survived a savage depth charge attack, the crews morale was badly shaken so they decided to scatter them to other boats. The Exec stayed but the skipper was moved up to staff. Gordon Selby took command, and focused on training as he stated he had at least a 50% turnover in officers and crew.

So, turnover was fairly constant for officers and some senior enlisted men, less so for junior sailors until they had a few patrols, gained in rank and experience, and went to schools for technical training or to other boats in more senior roles. Sometimes a shore billet was used as a "reward" for a valuable CPO or other senior enlisted man who had made a few too many patrols and were starting to show the strain.

If you have not read it yet, I recommend Clay Blairs "Silent Victory". Probably about the best single-volume book on the U.S subs in the Pacific. The discussion of the "Skipper Problem" is very interesting and feeds into your query very neatly.



.

[sqk7744]

Originally Posted by Crosseye76

Sometimes. As was pointed out earlier, some of the crew went to different boats or duty, and new men came in. The same went for officers.

Take for example, the Wahoo, under Mush Morton. His superb wardroom of George Grider, Roger Paine and Dick O'Kane went on to other boats, and also to commands of their own. They were not aboard Wahoo on her final patrol. And, of course, Mush himself took command of Wahoo from Pinky Kennedy.

Another example, after the Puffer had survived a savage depth charge attack, the crews morale was badly shaken so they decided to scatter them to other boats. The Exec stayed but the skipper was moved up to staff. Gordon Selby took command, and focused on training as he stated he had at least a 50% turnover in officers and crew.

So, turnover was fairly constant for officers and some senior enlisted men, less so for junior sailors until they had a few patrols, gained in rank and experience, and went to schools for technical training or to other boats in more senior roles. Sometimes a shore billet was used as a "reward" for a valuable CPO or other senior enlisted man who had made a few too many patrols and were starting to show the strain.

If you have not read it yet, I recommend Clay Blairs "Silent Victory". Probably about the best single-volume book on the U.S subs in the Pacific. The discussion of the "Skipper Problem" is very interesting and feeds into your query very neatly.



.

Thanks very much Crosseye76!

* In SH4 when you receive a new Boat/Command it appears that your crew comes along with you. Has anyone else run into this?

[dean_acheson]

Always the boat, but the crew gets to keep their medals.