Post patch 1.4 idea for modders

Ducimus · 11-07-07, 12:47 AM

This is just an idea, and i hesitate to post it cause im not sure how it will be accepted. But, with patch 1.4, i see an opportunity for all of us here. After the patch is released, what we'll really have here are three things.

1.) Mod which are no longer needed.
2.) Mods which are still needed but need to be made compatible.
3.) mods which are still compatiable.

But overall, large modpacks like TMaru or RFB, for a time period cease to exist, and all we have are the above three listed items.

Now, its my opinion, that modders in general, all have their area of expertise, and are probably happiest when they can focus on that one thing that bugs them the most. Some modders are great with sound files. Others are great with graphics, campaign scripting, AI tweaking, physics tweaking, what have you.

Currently, we all have our own ideas of what we want our game to be, and freely share or borrow from one another. BUt for the most part, im willing to bet there is a baseline that we're all sharing or have in common.

So here's the idea. After patch 1.4 is released, we put all "name brand" mods on hold. At this point they really dont exist as an entity anyway. Their just a collection of mods that needs to be broken apart and re examined. Since we're all going to be doing that anyway, I say, lets combine our efforts. Lets make a single "superMod" to establish a baseline, and mod to individual taste from there.

This single "supermod" i think should encompass all the things that we commonly mod in our individual packages anyway. Naturally they'll be differences of opinion, and i think the way around that is simple.

This "supermod"s only guideline i think, should be to address things that are still broken, historically inaccurate, or technically inaccurate. This supermod, we could call it "unoffical patch 1.5". And be the type of thing that we'd be unfraid to say, "just copy this into your sh4/data directory and forgetbboutit". So what kind of things should this include? The list is quite large when you think about it. For example.

- submarine fixes
- aircraft loadouts
- campaign files.
- realistic radar

the list could go on if you really wanted to hash it out. The focus being, "lets make it historically accurate, and do our own thing after its done". In short, we create vanilla ice cream. Of course, some folks like their vanilla with some sprinkes, or some like it with fudge.. thats fine. Its called "Flavored to taste" But you can't flavor anything if you don't have the ice cream to begin with. Once we have the ice cream made, we can run off into our own little visions of the game again, and ill betcha our indiviual "supermods" after that will be ALOT smaller, just 'fixing' the things we didnt agree with as individuals when creating the historically accurate supermod.

Now all of this effort will require a publisher. Someone will have to compile all the invidual works, and i think that this publisher (whoever it is, and i prefer it to NOT be myself), is that this is all this person does. Combine the mods into the total package. They don't mod anything, they just combine.

I don't think we need a project manager. I think we can handle this in a round table approach.

Overall, i think we can all bennfitt from this. Both from a workload point of view, and from a tech support point of view. Im sure alot of us are tired of "installation order" posts. We put it all together, and then just flavor it to our own individual needs after its done. In the end, the community has a historic baseline to choose from, and individual "taste" mods to choose from.

Just an idea.
( And yes i admit, im also being lazy and dont want to update Tmaru for patch 1.4 )

leovampire · 11-07-07, 12:55 AM

Once it is patched to 1.4 I am going to see exactly what is what and test the game to the max before I do a thing and see what it is like and give the Dev's the chance they deserve with all the new work.

I will not put down a thing in the open from this patch unless it is too obvious to miss.

Customize my sub and play the game then see where we are at.

Ducimus · 11-07-07, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leovampire

Once it is patched to 1.4 I am going to see exactly what is what and test the game to the max before I do a thing and see what it is like

Well, thats a given. You can't run off and go modding stuff if you don't know what is what. That said, some items, ill bet will still be "off". Crew rank configurations for example. The stock crew is often topheavy in rank, or crew members in various positions with rank that does not match the position it occupies. Its minor items like this, that i woudlnt expect the developers to spend much time on. Another example being sinking mechanics. Theres no reason why they would change it, while most of us agree on some form of NSM style mechanics. (myself included even though i currently don't use it).

Peto · 11-07-07, 01:12 AM

Well--since I really have done squat to mod SH4--I may be out of place speaking up here but...

I have been involved in large modding projects in the past and know how difficult/demanding/pita it can be.

What Ducimus said makes perfect sense to me.

Besides--you guys all deserve a vacation

.

Peto

Metl · 11-07-07, 01:13 AM

I prefer individual releases. That way I can get "fixes" and not the "historically accurate-way-to-damn-difficult" mods. No I am not a FPSer as some would call it. I'm just getting tired of being sunk on my first patrol. I prefer a "fair game for most players" as opposed to a "great game for the hardcore". That's my rant, sorry. I really do appreciate everybody's work, you are all great. I just really suck at the game and the bugs don't help.

leovampire · 11-07-07, 01:22 AM

:rotfl: I bet your Mom use to yell at you everyday for getting into everything in the house when you were young!

Me if it moved and or had moving parts I had to see how it worked and thank god I can not see the moving part's in here or I would have already rebuilt and turbo charged the motor's on the sub's. :rotfl:

Metl · 11-07-07, 01:30 AM

LEO, is LBO and ROW the same now? Also do I have to use NSM or TM for ROW?

leovampire · 11-07-07, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metl

LEO, is LBO and ROW the same now? Also do I have to use NSM or TM for ROW?

All of my ocean work is now in ROW so there is no need to use LBO.

For the moment yes it is sugested to use NSM for the Special effect's folder from ROW to work well.

There will be no need for it in the near future though as I am making a zone's file to work with the stock game. I will try and get it posted for everyone tomarrow.

But no you do not need T.M. or any other mod right now other than NSM.

THE_MASK · 11-07-07, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

. Lets make a single "superMod" to establish a baseline, and mod to individual taste from there.

Like i did with RFB1.31 you mean .

Ducimus · 11-07-07, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leovampire

:rotfl: I bet your Mom use to yell at you everyday for getting into everything in the house when you were young!

Me if it moved and or had moving parts I had to see how it worked and thank god I can not see the moving part's in here or I would have already rebuilt and turbo charged the motor's on the sub's. :rotfl:

You know, maybe your right. I do get myself in too deeply into things. I should probably use patch 1.4 as a sign to just let things go and stop getting into things. Get out of this altogether. I really want to, but its like im addicted to messing with the game files.

edit:
You know what my problem is...... I know too much. Back when i first started playing SH3 a few years back, i knew NOTHING. Parts of the game was a total mystery, and things that bugged me, i just dealed with it because it was part of the game, and i didnt know any better. Once i learned how to tweak things, it all went downhill from there. I see something, i have to change it, and one change leads to another change, which leads to another, and before i know it, im not even playing the game anymore, just tweaking files. Its an endless cycle.

In a way, i wish i never got into modding.

TDK1044 · 11-07-07, 07:25 AM

I think a lot of people are looking for a 1.4 compatible mod that consists of TM and ROW together. After that, they are looking for small individual mods to add at will.

Peto · 11-07-07, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

edit: You know what my problem is...... I know too much. Back when i first started playing SH3 a few years back, i knew NOTHING. Parts of the game was a total mystery, and things that bugged me, i just dealed with it because it was part of the game, and i didnt know any better. Once i learned how to tweak things, it all went downhill from there. I see something, i have to change it, and one change leads to another change, which leads to another, and before i know it, im not even playing the game anymore, just tweaking files. Its an endless cycle.

In a way, i wish i never got into modding.

Seriously--I know how you feel.... You can't fire it up without thinking about making something "just a little better" and "now what if I tried....". It is an addiction and that's one of the reasons I haven't gotten into it too much with SH3 and 4.

So--you have basically 3 choices:

1. Walk Away: I'm the last one that would blame you for that. Sometimes modding actuallu takes over a big part of our free time and (by default) our life. Is it worth it in the balance? (Sometimes it is...if it's FUN).

2. Keep Going for Perfect: Which will most likely never happen. This game isn't a pig--it's more like your favorite house pet. And my cat still pukes on the rug sometimes. ie--the sim will never be perfect because there just too d**m many definitions of perfect.

3. Take some time off and ENJOY what you have done!!! Wait for 1.4 and make a last run at tweaks that YOU want for YOUR OWN reasons, share them with the community and announce your retirement.

Personally, I recommend 3. Doing #1 nags at you (I know from experience) and 2 is next to impossible. And besides--I'm selfish and would like to see what happens with 1.4 and what you do to improve upon it (I'm sure it'll need just a tweak or two yet LOL). Don't get so hooked that you burn out though. You do that and the game will never really be fun for you again...

Salute!!!

Peto

jdkbph · 11-07-07, 08:53 AM

I know it might be a lot of admin type work, but why not create a master list of mods (ie, all independents as well as a break out of the super mods like TM and RFB), then ask everyone to post a list of their favorite bits and pieces?

I'm sure there will be many that are universally (or at least commonly) preferred. That would be a good basis for both a 1.4 evaluation (to see what on the list was fixed) and the start of a post 1.4 mod pack (to address those things on the list that weren't fixed).

JD

donut · 11-07-07, 05:31 PM

Dangerous ground =s Valor at Sea,for us. Valor being committed to leadership,with prudent decisions,for freedom to fight,or dive for the door/thermal in order to enjoy tomorrow when the storm is past.Alive

Duci's example of FtT,is like unto a trophy wife,but a foundation must have reverse engineering options,in order to regain the love of the game/wife,& move Fwd together into new missions/campaigns.
Commitment needs to be a cornerstone in the marriage/mod,& it is something of a benevolent dictatorship to keep that focus,as head chair person on a modding forum
I do hope you-all can make out the analogy that I am trying to impart

Subsim is a home to inspire valor in youth,for the future much like SHIV,& WWII

Ducimus · 11-07-07, 05:45 PM

Well, it was an idea.

I have alot of ideas.

Trouble is, most of em suck.

11-07-07, 12:55 AM	#2
leovampire Eternal Patrol Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Waterbury, CT. USA Posts: 2,336 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I personaly other than visuals for my sub am going to see what the game is like as is Once it is patched to 1.4 I am going to see exactly what is what and test the game to the max before I do a thing and see what it is like and give the Dev's the chance they deserve with all the new work. I will not put down a thing in the open from this patch unless it is too obvious to miss. Customize my sub and play the game then see where we are at. __________________ AIR_BASE_NAV_MAP_MOD Reflections_on_the_Water

11-07-07, 01:22 AM	#6
leovampire Eternal Patrol Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Waterbury, CT. USA Posts: 2,336 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Duci you just can't keep that hand out of the cookie jar can you?! :rotfl: I bet your Mom use to yell at you everyday for getting into everything in the house when you were young! Me if it moved and or had moving parts I had to see how it worked and thank god I can not see the moving part's in here or I would have already rebuilt and turbo charged the motor's on the sub's. :rotfl: __________________ AIR_BASE_NAV_MAP_MOD Reflections_on_the_Water

11-07-07, 05:31 PM	#14
donut The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: The Shifting, Whispering Sands, NM Posts: 1,463 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Compairing SHIV modding to marriage Dangerous ground =s Valor at Sea,for us. Valor being committed to leadership,with prudent decisions,for freedom to fight,or dive for the door/thermal in order to enjoy tomorrow when the storm is past.Alive Duci's example of FtT,is like unto a trophy wife,but a foundation must have reverse engineering options,in order to regain the love of the game/wife,& move Fwd together into new missions/campaigns. Commitment needs to be a cornerstone in the marriage/mod,& it is something of a benevolent dictatorship to keep that focus,as head chair person on a modding forum I do hope you-all can make out the analogy that I am trying to impart Subsim is a home to inspire valor in youth,for the future much like SHIV,& WWII

11-07-07, 12:47 AM	#1
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Post patch 1.4 idea for modders This is just an idea, and i hesitate to post it cause im not sure how it will be accepted. But, with patch 1.4, i see an opportunity for all of us here. After the patch is released, what we'll really have here are three things. 1.) Mod which are no longer needed. 2.) Mods which are still needed but need to be made compatible. 3.) mods which are still compatiable. But overall, large modpacks like TMaru or RFB, for a time period cease to exist, and all we have are the above three listed items. Now, its my opinion, that modders in general, all have their area of expertise, and are probably happiest when they can focus on that one thing that bugs them the most. Some modders are great with sound files. Others are great with graphics, campaign scripting, AI tweaking, physics tweaking, what have you. Currently, we all have our own ideas of what we want our game to be, and freely share or borrow from one another. BUt for the most part, im willing to bet there is a baseline that we're all sharing or have in common. So here's the idea. After patch 1.4 is released, we put all "name brand" mods on hold. At this point they really dont exist as an entity anyway. Their just a collection of mods that needs to be broken apart and re examined. Since we're all going to be doing that anyway, I say, lets combine our efforts. Lets make a single "superMod" to establish a baseline, and mod to individual taste from there. This single "supermod" i think should encompass all the things that we commonly mod in our individual packages anyway. Naturally they'll be differences of opinion, and i think the way around that is simple. This "supermod"s only guideline i think, should be to address things that are still broken, historically inaccurate, or technically inaccurate. This supermod, we could call it "unoffical patch 1.5". And be the type of thing that we'd be unfraid to say, "just copy this into your sh4/data directory and forgetbboutit". So what kind of things should this include? The list is quite large when you think about it. For example. - submarine fixes - aircraft loadouts - campaign files. - realistic radar the list could go on if you really wanted to hash it out. The focus being, "lets make it historically accurate, and do our own thing after its done". In short, we create vanilla ice cream. Of course, some folks like their vanilla with some sprinkes, or some like it with fudge.. thats fine. Its called "Flavored to taste" But you can't flavor anything if you don't have the ice cream to begin with. Once we have the ice cream made, we can run off into our own little visions of the game again, and ill betcha our indiviual "supermods" after that will be ALOT smaller, just 'fixing' the things we didnt agree with as individuals when creating the historically accurate supermod. Now all of this effort will require a publisher. Someone will have to compile all the invidual works, and i think that this publisher (whoever it is, and i prefer it to NOT be myself), is that this is all this person does. Combine the mods into the total package. They don't mod anything, they just combine. I don't think we need a project manager. I think we can handle this in a round table approach. Overall, i think we can all bennfitt from this. Both from a workload point of view, and from a tech support point of view. Im sure alot of us are tired of "installation order" posts. We put it all together, and then just flavor it to our own individual needs after its done. In the end, the community has a historic baseline to choose from, and individual "taste" mods to choose from. Just an idea. ( And yes i admit, im also being lazy and dont want to update Tmaru for patch 1.4 ) Last edited by Ducimus; 11-07-07 at 01:02 AM.

11-07-07, 01:12 AM	#4
Peto Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The details of my life are quite inconsequential Posts: 1,049 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Well--since I really have done squat to mod SH4--I may be out of place speaking up here but... I have been involved in large modding projects in the past and know how difficult/demanding/pita it can be. What Ducimus said makes perfect sense to me. Besides--you guys all deserve a vacation . Peto

11-07-07, 01:13 AM	#5
Metl Bosun Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 67 Downloads: 166 Uploads: 0	I prefer individual releases. That way I can get "fixes" and not the "historically accurate-way-to-damn-difficult" mods. No I am not a FPSer as some would call it. I'm just getting tired of being sunk on my first patrol. I prefer a "fair game for most players" as opposed to a "great game for the hardcore". That's my rant, sorry. I really do appreciate everybody's work, you are all great. I just really suck at the game and the bugs don't help.

11-07-07, 01:30 AM	#7
Metl Bosun Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 67 Downloads: 166 Uploads: 0	LEO, is LBO and ROW the same now? Also do I have to use NSM or TM for ROW?

11-07-07, 07:25 AM	#11
TDK1044 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 2,674 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	I think a lot of people are looking for a 1.4 compatible mod that consists of TM and ROW together. After that, they are looking for small individual mods to add at will.

11-07-07, 08:53 AM	#13
jdkbph Captain Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 508 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 0	I know it might be a lot of admin type work, but why not create a master list of mods (ie, all independents as well as a break out of the super mods like TM and RFB), then ask everyone to post a list of their favorite bits and pieces? I'm sure there will be many that are universally (or at least commonly) preferred. That would be a good basis for both a 1.4 evaluation (to see what on the list was fixed) and the start of a post 1.4 mod pack (to address those things on the list that weren't fixed). JD

11-07-07, 05:45 PM	#15
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Well, it was an idea. I have alot of ideas. Trouble is, most of em suck.