Hardcore Modern War Sims

[Blacklight]

Okay... we know that Dangerous Waters is the best Modern Hardcore naval sim out there now, and we know that Steel Beasts Pro (Personal Edition) is the best (albeit expensive but more affordable than the next level up) hardcore modern armor sim. Harpoon 3 Advanced Naval Warfare is the best hardcore modern naval command sim out there...

What other modern hardcore ultra realistic games are out there ? I and some friends were kicking around the idea of doing a hardcore simulation of a war between two reletively evenly matched countries using hardcore modern military sims.

[Biggles]

Are you looking for naval sims only?
'Cause in that case it might be hard to find anything more...

[NeonSamurai]

Heh ya want hardcore try falcon 4 Allied Force, will take you at least a month before you know your way around the cockpit and mfd's, and another month to learn how to use them

[Bill Nichols]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

Heh ya want hardcore try falcon 4 Allied Force, will take you at least a month before you know your way around the cockpit and mfd's, and another month to learn how to use them

Agreed. If you're talking about Naval flight sims, Jane's F/A-18 is still the best, most detailed one you can fly.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

Heh ya want hardcore try falcon 4 Allied Force, will take you at least a month before you know your way around the cockpit and mfd's, and another month to learn how to use them

Agreed as well - except I'd plan for 6 months to be proficient. And you forgot about the part where if you don't fly for a while, you will suck for at least a week until you remember everything.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

For land combat, I'd go with Armed Assault here. You aren't going to get any more hardcore than that with a rifle in hand. Death is always close by.

-S

[Dowly]

As for land combat, there really isnt any hardcore sims other that Steel Beasts. Some will say OFP & ArmA, but in the end, they arent really that hardcore. The closest I think I've played is the Red Orchesta. It's not as BIG as ArmA & OFP, but there's few things that really adds up to the realism.

- Bolt action rifles have to be manually reloaded after every shot
- no ammo counter (only mag counter, the game tells you if the new mag is either heavy = full or light = half.)
- no crosshairs, only ironsights.
- machinegunner have to replace the barrel after a few mags
- big maps that arent all balanced for the gameplay (On some maps where the defending side has been dug in well and coordinates the defences, the other team will be down to 10-20% reinforcements before they have captured even the first flag
- Realistic weapon recoil system. Without any support (ground, three, corner of a building) you can only shoot 2-3 round burst with any SMG. With the weapon supported, the aim is very steady and recoil is reduced.
- Tanks have realistic armor thicknesses around it. Most of the tanks are disabled if shot to the rear. Also, there's numerous parts that can be destroyed on tanks/halftracks. Engine etc.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Dowly

As for land combat, there really isnt any hardcore sims other that Steel Beasts. Some will say OFP & ArmA, but in the end, they arent really that hardcore. The closest I think I've played is the Red Orchesta. It's not as BIG as ArmA & OFP, but there's few things that really adds up to the realism.

- Bolt action rifles have to be manually reloaded after every shot
- no ammo counter (only mag counter, the game tells you if the new mag is either heavy = full or light = half.)
- no crosshairs, only ironsights.
- machinegunner have to replace the barrel after a few mags
- big maps that arent all balanced for the gameplay (On some maps where the defending side has been dug in well and coordinates the defences, the other team will be down to 10-20% reinforcements before they have captured even the first flag
- Realistic weapon recoil system. Without any support (ground, three, corner of a building) you can only shoot 2-3 round burst with any SMG. With the weapon supported, the aim is very steady and recoil is reduced.
- Tanks have realistic armor thicknesses around it. Most of the tanks are disabled if shot to the rear. Also, there's numerous parts that can be destroyed on tanks/halftracks. Engine etc.

Well, you can opt for all of this in ArmA too. It is in the settings - you can remove your crosshairs and simple help and have absolutely nothing but your wits! Vehicle combat in ArmA is OK, but not as up to par as the guy with the boots on the ground.

-S

PS. I played through some of Red Orchestra. It was OK. Not as great in my book though.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Well, you can opt for all of this in ArmA too. It is in the settings - you can remove your crosshairs and simple help and have absolutely nothing but your wits! Vehicle combat in ArmA is OK, but not as up to par as the guy with the boots on the ground.

-S

PS. I played through some of Red Orchestra. It was OK. Not as great in my book though.

Yes, you can do some of the things in ArmA too, but not ALL. There's no support system for weapons, no barrel changing, the tank damage model is based on the hitpoints more than a destroying vital parts of it. There's no invidual parts expect the tires that can be destroyed in vehicles (No, the tail rotor doesnt count. When the chopper loses the hitpoints needed, it loses the rotor.).

[Janus]

Combat Mission series (especially Barbarossa to Berlin, Afrika Corps and the latest: Shock Force which's theme is the US Stryker infantry and Syrian = russian style army).

http://www.battlefront.com

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Janus

Combat Mission series (especially Barbarossa to Berlin, Afrika Corps and the latest: Shock Force which's theme is the US Stryker infantry and Syrian = russian style army).

http://www.battlefront.com

Ah yes, how could I forget the legendary CM series. Also, a good try is the Close Combat series, with a few mods, you can get it pretty dang hard & realistic.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Yes, you can do some of the things in ArmA too, but not ALL. There's no support system for weapons, no barrel changing, the tank damage model is based on the hitpoints more than a destroying vital parts of it. There's no invidual parts expect the tires that can be destroyed in vehicles (No, the tail rotor doesnt count. When the chopper loses the hitpoints needed, it loses the rotor.).

Yes - it would be nice to have unreliable weapons, but with modern weapons (Mind you an M249 is the exception - that thing seems to warp barrels like its going out of style), you wouldn't be changing barrels. With a heavy barrel on an M-16, you can shoot 10's of thousands of rounds through it without a problem.

Tank damage modeling is hit point based, but unlike OFP, it is aware of where you hit it. Hit a T-72 with a LAW in the front, and it is probably not going to care, unless you hit it multiple times. You can destroy it with a single law from the rear though. You can also hit individual parts on the tank - hit the barrel, and it is not going to be able to shoot anymore, things like that. You can also destroy tracks to immobilize it.

Even getting shot affects your game - get shot in the arms, and good luck trying to shoot. Get shot in the legs, and I hope you like crawling, etc. Get shot in a vital - and you are dead meat.

Anyway, I know why the US Army uses this engine to teach tactics - it works and is about as realistic as you can get.

ArmA is not about vehicles first and foremost though - it is about boots on the ground. This is where it shines like no other sim in my opinion. Red Orchestra fails to capture its feel of reality to me. I got kind of bored with it over time. Maybe because WWII ground combat is not all that fun to me with ancient weapons.

-S

[stabiz]

Armed Assault and Red Orchestra. Period.

[Overkill]

I'd like to see another Taskforce 1942. Battlestations Midway is good but I liked the simulation and realism TF1942 offered.

[Bill Nichols]

I'm waiting for Call of Honor 4