Fuel: Discuss these two choices

Ducimus · 08-13-07, 07:36 PM

Which would you prefer and why?

Realistic:
12,000 NM @ 10 kts ( loosely translates into "ahead 2/3rds")

Arguably, not realistic:
12,000 NM @ 12 kts. (loosley translates into "Ahead standard")

Misfit138 · 08-13-07, 07:46 PM

I'm a realism junkie so...

Realistic:12,000 NM @ 10 kts ( loosely translates into "ahead 2/3rds")

Just wished that with this option there would be also an option to call a tug boat if on friendly territory

orangenee · 08-13-07, 08:25 PM

Not really realistic for me, if they modelled the world correctly then I'd probably go for realistic but they didn't.

theluckyone17 · 08-13-07, 08:40 PM

I'm for realism, myself... 'course, I'm with the guys above, wishing that wind/current would have an effect, along with the ability to call in for a tender or some other assistance.

There's been a few times when I'm heading back to port. I've got fuel to get there, plus a nice reserve if I need to dive or replot a few times. I'm sweating, though, since I can't remember exactly when my base is overrun by Jap's, and I'm going to have to divert to a different, more distant base... that I don't have enough diesel to reach.

But if I can't get all that, then I still want realism... 'cause it's my fault if I didn't leave enough reserve in. No matter how big that reserve needed to be

.

Snuffy · 08-13-07, 08:50 PM

Real works for me ...

Ducimus · 08-14-07, 01:23 AM

Ok, i had an idea, and the idea is obviously bad, and i agree its bad. Thats ok, just something else i DON'T need to do :P

switch.dota · 08-14-07, 02:23 AM

One problem, Duci: ahead 2/3 is 8, not 10 knots. Either increase engine power to 48% (from 40%) for 2/3 or modify efficiency. I have modded ahead standard to a flat 50% engine power for the sole purpose of having 10 knots at the touch of a button. I don't fancy manually setting the speed everytime I surface (up to 10 times a day). It's repetetive and only gets on one's nerves.

Ducimus · 08-14-07, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by switch.dota

One problem, Duci: ahead 2/3 is 8, not 10 knots. Either increase engine power to 48% (from 40%) for 2/3 or modify efficiency. I have modded ahead standard to a flat 50% engine power for the sole purpose of having 10 knots at the touch of a button. I don't fancy manually setting the speed everytime I surface (up to 10 times a day). It's repetetive and only gets on one's nerves.

If it wasnt for the fact that those engine telegraph speeds ALSO effect underwater endurance, id have changed it already. I feel the 2/3rds, as is, is needed because of submerged performance. Realistically you don't gain that much distance by going at 10 kts. I've always known that 9-10 kts is the best, for years, but i never do it. Ahead 2/3rds the whole time (8 kts), and i've never been short on fuel. *shrug*

switch.dota · 08-14-07, 03:46 AM

I use

1/3 = underwater silent speed / daytime submerged speed
2/3 = underwater cruise speed
std = surface cruise speed (modded to around 10-10.5 knots)
full = 80% engine power
flank = good ol' one double 'oh engine power.

Ducimus · 08-14-07, 03:53 AM

You know i just ran myself over to the bungo suido area, and i swear to you, i tried both 10 kits and 8 kits and my total estimate milage at 10 kit was acutally LOWER then if i ran at 8 kts. Maybe it varies on boat type, but i often think that magical speed of 10 kts is over rated.

C DuDe · 08-14-07, 05:51 AM

I'll go realistic when a tug boat is available.

switch.dota · 08-14-07, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

You know i just ran myself over to the bungo suido area, and i swear to you, i tried both 10 kits and 8 kits and my total estimate milage at 10 kit was acutally LOWER then if i ran at 8 kts. Maybe it varies on boat type, but i often think that magical speed of 10 kts is over rated.

You should use TM's Max Range @ Current Speed estimate. It pretty much proves that the optimal speed is a little above 10. 8 knots is pretty similar to 11-12 knots in terms of range.

Redwine · 08-14-07, 08:17 AM

I like the realistic option, but...

When you use the plotter course tool... and set a new waypoint, the sim move the enegine telegraph to ahead standard... if you forget to move it to the "economy" position, you may loss fuel...

Then, i think so it is better to have the "economy" speed in the position at wich the sim moves the telegraph automatically after stablish a new waipoint to avoid indesired errors.

I prteffers the option showed by "Switch.dota" above.

switch.dota · 08-14-07, 08:58 AM

Offtopic: I wanted "switch" but it's taken

nomdeplume · 08-14-07, 09:04 AM

Redwine makes a real good point. I voted realistic, but the whole "the AI sets the speed to Standard by default" thing is probably enough to change my mind. After all, it is called "standard", so surely that'd be the standard cruising speed?*.

I kind of like 2/3rd in that it makes every preset kind-of useful:

1/3rd is for dawdling, or very fast charging of batteries while still moving.
2/3rd is for best fuel efficiency.
Standard is slightly less efficient, but useful when chasing or ending-around the slower convoys (or just keeping ahead of them while you wait for better weather or what have you). Doesn't slow down charging too much, either.
Full is for ending around, while still giving the batteries a tiny charge.
Flank is for when all hell's breaking loose. The speed gain is marginal at best, but it sure feels good to yell "AHEAD FLANK!" when the s hits the f.

I think the above also map reasonably to engine usage (in terms of propulsion), from using the auxiliary for propulsion up to using all four main engines plus the aux for propulsion. Probably incorrect, but it "makes sense" to me.

Ultimately, I don't really care what the optimum setting is, so long as it's one of the presets (or at least if it's close enough not to make a significant difference to your endurance).

* - I guess "standard" is the cruising speed in peace time, when endurance isn't so important and they tend to refill constantly anyway.

View Poll Results: Which would you prefer for fuel?
Textbook Realism: 12,000 NM @ 10 kts (Loosely translates into ahead 2/3rds)	75	77.32%
Not so textbook: 12,000 NM @ 12 kts (Loosely translates into ahead standard)	22	22.68%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

08-13-07, 07:36 PM	#1
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Fuel: Discuss these two choices Which would you prefer and why? Realistic: 12,000 NM @ 10 kts ( loosely translates into "ahead 2/3rds") Arguably, not realistic: 12,000 NM @ 12 kts. (loosley translates into "Ahead standard")

08-13-07, 08:25 PM	#3
orangenee Engineer Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 211 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Not really realistic for me, if they modelled the world correctly then I'd probably go for realistic but they didn't. __________________ Remember people, murder kills!!

08-13-07, 08:50 PM	#5
Snuffy XO Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 420 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Real works for me ... __________________ ----------------- Snuffy!

08-14-07, 08:17 AM	#13
Redwine Sea Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: San Martin de los Andes, Neuquen, , Argentina. Posts: 1,962 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I like the realistic option, but... When you use the plotter course tool... and set a new waypoint, the sim move the enegine telegraph to ahead standard... if you forget to move it to the "economy" position, you may loss fuel... Then, i think so it is better to have the "economy" speed in the position at wich the sim moves the telegraph automatically after stablish a new waipoint to avoid indesired errors. I prteffers the option showed by "Switch.dota" above. __________________ . "SH III and SH IV Mods" "Manual TDC Tutorial" "SH2 Downloads Selection"

08-13-07, 07:46 PM	#2
Misfit138 Lieutenant Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 267 Downloads: 80 Uploads: 0	I'm a realism junkie so... Realistic:12,000 NM @ 10 kts ( loosely translates into "ahead 2/3rds") Just wished that with this option there would be also an option to call a tug boat if on friendly territory

08-13-07, 08:40 PM	#4
theluckyone17 Captain Join Date: May 2006 Location: Niskayuna, NY Posts: 482 Downloads: 103 Uploads: 0	I'm for realism, myself... 'course, I'm with the guys above, wishing that wind/current would have an effect, along with the ability to call in for a tender or some other assistance. There's been a few times when I'm heading back to port. I've got fuel to get there, plus a nice reserve if I need to dive or replot a few times. I'm sweating, though, since I can't remember exactly when my base is overrun by Jap's, and I'm going to have to divert to a different, more distant base... that I don't have enough diesel to reach. But if I can't get all that, then I still want realism... 'cause it's my fault if I didn't leave enough reserve in. No matter how big that reserve needed to be .

08-14-07, 01:23 AM	#6
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Ok, i had an idea, and the idea is obviously bad, and i agree its bad. Thats ok, just something else i DON'T need to do :P

08-14-07, 02:23 AM	#7
switch.dota Captain Join Date: May 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 492 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	One problem, Duci: ahead 2/3 is 8, not 10 knots. Either increase engine power to 48% (from 40%) for 2/3 or modify efficiency. I have modded ahead standard to a flat 50% engine power for the sole purpose of having 10 knots at the touch of a button. I don't fancy manually setting the speed everytime I surface (up to 10 times a day). It's repetetive and only gets on one's nerves.

08-14-07, 03:46 AM	#9
switch.dota Captain Join Date: May 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 492 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I use 1/3 = underwater silent speed / daytime submerged speed 2/3 = underwater cruise speed std = surface cruise speed (modded to around 10-10.5 knots) full = 80% engine power flank = good ol' one double 'oh engine power.

08-14-07, 03:53 AM	#10
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	You know i just ran myself over to the bungo suido area, and i swear to you, i tried both 10 kits and 8 kits and my total estimate milage at 10 kit was acutally LOWER then if i ran at 8 kts. Maybe it varies on boat type, but i often think that magical speed of 10 kts is over rated.

08-14-07, 05:51 AM	#11
C DuDe Ensign Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 229 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	I'll go realistic when a tug boat is available.

08-14-07, 08:58 AM	#14
switch.dota Captain Join Date: May 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 492 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Offtopic: I wanted "switch" but it's taken

08-14-07, 09:04 AM	#15
nomdeplume Seaman Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 36 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Redwine makes a real good point. I voted realistic, but the whole "the AI sets the speed to Standard by default" thing is probably enough to change my mind. After all, it is called "standard", so surely that'd be the standard cruising speed?. I kind of like 2/3rd in that it makes every preset kind-of useful: 1/3rd is for dawdling, or very fast charging of batteries while still moving. 2/3rd is for best fuel efficiency. Standard is slightly less efficient, but useful when chasing or ending-around the slower convoys (or just keeping ahead of them while you wait for better weather or what have you). Doesn't slow down charging too much, either. Full is for ending around, while still giving the batteries a tiny charge. Flank is for when all hell's breaking loose. The speed gain is marginal at best, but it sure feels good to yell "AHEAD FLANK!" when the s hits the f. I think the above also map reasonably to engine usage (in terms of propulsion), from using the auxiliary for propulsion up to using all four main engines plus the aux for propulsion. Probably incorrect, but it "makes sense" to me. Ultimately, I don't really care what the optimum setting is, so long as it's one of the presets (or at least if it's close enough not to make a significant difference to your endurance). - I guess "standard" is the cruising speed in peace time, when endurance isn't so important and they tend to refill constantly anyway.