Rice unveils plan to send $billions in military aid to Middle East

[fatty]

http://voanews.com/english/2007-07-31-voa5.cfm

In a talk with reporters traveling with her, Rice defended the plan as a continuation of a long-standing American commitment to regional allies, while assuring supporters of Israel in the U.S. Congress that the military balance in the region will not change.

Under the plan, Israel would receive three billion dollars a year in U.S. aid - a 25 percent increase - with a commitment that funding would continue at that level for 10 years - for a $30 billion total.

Egypt would get $13 billion over the same 10-year period along with additional security-related economic aid to be announced later. Meanwhile Rice and Gates, in their unusual joint mission to the area, will begin talks this week with Saudi Arabia and other Gulf allies on arms sales to them that could exceed $20 billion.

Now, I am no expert in Middle East relations, but this is not a region exactly famous for its stability; good Arab guys have spontaneously turned into bad Arab guys on more than one occasion. Is this a good idea?

[SUBMAN1]

It is a great idea. The stability out there is a little off since there is a vacuum left by the demise of Iraq. So Iran is running aorund like no one can challenge them. This aid package will sort of bring the scales of power back in line.

-S

[Skybird]

Deliver HiTech weapons to your worst enemy - Saudi-Arabia - is a folly that cannot be topped. Not always the enemy of my enemy automatically is my friend - more often he remains to be my enemy as well. Over the half of Islamic terrorist going to Iraq - are coming from Saudi Arabia. SA is the exact oppposite of all and everything these American projects of democracy in the ME, and fighting the axis of evil, were about. Now a memeber of the axis of evil, a real rogue state, is getting armed up. This deal could be understood as the confession that all these ideas failed and have been given up. SA invests massively into international Islamic terrorism, and massively funds aggressive cultural expansion projects. The ME in general is not suffering from a lack of weaponry, but a lack of stability. The WH displays total helplessness in strategic imagination, has failed to create alternative options, and thus falls back to the block-thinking of the cold war. Reasonable strategy has nothing to do with this "aid package", it is the exact opposite of reasonable strategy. The real reason is pressure to do business from the Amerian arms industry, for Saudi Arabia is traditionally the best paying of all it's international customers. Mind you that the new Saudi king is openly hostile to the US, and the irritations between both sides, to put it this way, are mounting since a longer time now.

Greed wins over reason - that is what this deal is about. Strategy has nothing to do with it - it's better characterized by the the total absence of any reason.

Americans should ask themselves if the greed for profits by their defense industries really could be brought into conformity with the interests of the American people.

Arming up Saudi Arabia... typical stupid Bush&Gang logic. Who was it who said that capitalism does not know national loyalty and national pride?

[mbthegreat]

Keep the house of Sau sweet, lest they turn off the oil, can't figure out why you would want to give egypt money though, probably in an effort to help them clamp down on radicals.

Giving Israel even more money is just silly, perhaps they're hoping that they'll take the initiative and nuke Iran

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by mbthegreat

Keep the house of Sau sweet, lest they turn off the oil, can't figure out why you would want to give egypt money though, probably in an effort to help them clamp down on radicals.

Giving Israel even more money is just silly, perhaps they're hoping that they'll take the initiative and nuke Iran

You must make Isreal capable of standing up to other countries in the region who also have US weapons.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Deliver HiTech weapons to your worst enemy - Saudi-Arabia - is a folly that cannot be topped. Not always the enemy of my enemy automatically is my friend - more often he remains to be my enemy as well. Over the half of Islamic terrorist going to Iraq - are coming from Saudi Arabia. SA is the exact oppposite of all and everything these American projects of democracy in the ME, and fighting the axis of evil, were about. Now a memeber of the axis of evil, a real rogue state, is getting armed up. This deal could be understood as the confession that all these ideas failed and have been given up. SA invests massively into international Islamic terrorism, and massively funds aggressive cultural expansion projects. The ME in general is not suffering from a lack of weaponry, but a lack of stability. The WH displays total helplessness in strategic imagination, has failed to create alternative options, and thus falls back to the block-thinking of the cold war. Reasonable strategy has nothing to do with this "aid package", it is the exact opposite of reasonable strategy. The real reason is pressure to do business from the Amerian arms industry, for Saudi Arabia is traditionally the best paying of all it's international customers. Mind you that the new Saudi king is openly hostile to the US, and the irritations between both sides, to put it this way, are mounting since a longer time now.

Greed wins over reason - that is what this deal is about. Strategy has nothing to do with it - it's better characterized by the the total absence of any reason.

Americans should ask themselves if the greed for profits by their defense industries really could be brought into conformity with the interests of the American people.

Arming up Saudi Arabia... typical stupid Bush&Gang logic. Who was it who said that capitalism does not know national loyalty and national pride?

I have to agree with you hear Skybird....sending arms to any Muslim nation is just insane and makes me want to actually slap Bush but alas...the War Pigs have the power ...for now.

[caspofungin]

er, al qaeda is just as much a threat to the saudi royal family as it is to the us, and there's a long history of tension between the wahhabi sects and the royals.

in addition, the sunni gulf states (including saudi) are already twitchy about the prospect of a shiite iran with a military that's only second to israel's in the region.

giving the saudi's weapons/training seems a pragmatic move -- and it's been us policy since the 1930's. there's nothing new here.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by caspofungin

er, al qaeda is just as much a threat to the saudi royal family as it is to the us, and there's a long history of tension between the wahhabi sects and the royals.

in addition, the sunni gulf states (including saudi) are already twitchy about the prospect of a shiite iran with a military that's only second to israel's in the region.

giving the saudi's weapons/training seems a pragmatic move -- and it's been us policy since the 1930's. there's nothing new here.

The enemy of my enemy is not my friend. Iran is funding terrorism in the region. the Saudis are even more funding terrorism in the West and the whole world. that their motives make them different to al Quaeda does not change that BOTH are hostile to us. the top funder of international terrorism- is Saudi Arabia. Most 9/11 terrorists were Saudis. Saudi money is onvolved wherever you lokk at global Islamic terrorism. And such a regime now gets weapons from the US that claims to fight against terrorism - that is totally absurd. That is as silly as French nuclear reactors for Lybia. The raised potency of SA of course also needs to restore the "balance" - by giving according quatities of goods to Israel as well. If you arm Israel, you need to serve Egypt as well. Oh, military industries must love this way of circular thinking - plenty of profits from that "logic" of searching for the balance!

The West is not forced to behave that silly, and it will pay for follies like this - only a question of time. It's fate then will be well-deserved, and nobody will have the right to complain. Those who are responisble for these crimes against the interests of their own nations never will be held responsible for their unscrupelousness to help the enemy, of course.

It all stinks. "Homo Sapiens" - a contradiction in itself.

[Skybird]

German newspaper Die Welt, quoted by Der Spiegel:

"
"With its plans for weapons shipments worth billions to the Gulf states, Washington has now made it official: The democratization of the Middle East is no longer the focus of American foreign policy. In the name of limiting Iran's influence and restoring stability in the region, the US is returning to a Cold War strategy: The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
"But doubts about whether this strategy is prudent in the case of Saudi Arabia can be heard beyond Israel and Europe. Many within the US administration are also convinced that international Islamic terrorism is something akin to the Saudis' exported civil war. Why else would half the foreign fighters traveling to Iraq be Saudis? And of the 19 men responsible for the 9/11 terror attacks, 15 were from Saudi Arabia. From Cologne to Karachi, Saudi embassies very openly operate Wahhabite Koran schools -- the most rigid, backward and dangerous form of Islam."
"The strategy's effectiveness is very doubtful. In the 1980s, people placed their bets on Osama bin Ladin, the Taliban and Saddam Hussein when it came to dealing with the Soviets and Iran. Today we are struggling with the bloody consequences of those strategies. Courting Saudi Arabia is unwise and dangerous."


German newspaper "Süddeutsche Zeitung":

"No other country in the Middle East is further from the democratic ideals preached by the US than Saudi Arabia. Mildly put, the human rights situation doesn't meet Western standards."
"And beyond political realism, the (current) king is far less pro-American than his brother, who ruled before him ... The cooling of relations was most obvious when Abdallah described the US presence in Iraq at the last Arab Summit in Riyadh as an 'illegal foreign occupation.' Last fall, the king warned he would attack in Iraq if a civil war were to ensue after a withdrawal of US troops. But that's not the only point of irritation. Washington is also displeased about the Saudis' desire to create a nuclear partnership with Pakistan even if, as the Saudi's claim, it would be limited to the exchange of information."

German newspaper Die Tageszeitung

"The only thing the Bush administration has left to offer after six and a half years in power is a mixture of fear, helplessness and panic. Out of acute desperation, the US government now wants to provide help and weapons deals over the next 10 years to the countries that are best able to launch a new arms race in the region. No one can seriously believe that the already weapons-satiated Mideast can be satisfied or held in check by yet more weapons."
"If Congress approves the plan, the Bush government's already appalling foreign policy record will only get worse. The only clearly identifiable victor would be the US defense industry -- which, incidentally, has considerable influence in Washington." "

All quoted by Der Spiegel:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...497428,00.html

[Gorduz]

I agree with Skybird, this is meaningless. Before you know it thos weapons will end up killing U.S soldiers. And there is no doubt in my mind that this idea has been strongly lobbied by the arms industry.

The only "good" reason for doing this from a US perspective is that you hope for a big war down there after the US has pulled out, thereby giving the terrorist organistations other things to occupy their minds. But of course this will send the oilprices skyrocketing, and in the long term that may be worse.. I don't know

[caspofungin]

Most 9/11 terrorists were Saudis

and as far as i'm aware, none of them were from the royal family. the saudi government has been vigourously clamping down on the wahhabi threat to their rule -- that includes actively fighting against al qaeda in saudi. you think the region is stable now? pull the rug out from the saudi government and in a couple of years you'll have a country run by the taleban mk 2.

Last fall, the king warned he would attack in Iraq if a civil war were to ensue after a withdrawal of US troops.

yeah, because he doesn't want a shiite state on his doorstep.

money talks. the saudi's have it, they want weapons and training to protect their (the royal family's) interests -- a regional cold war against the iranian/shiite influence, and an internal threat from the wahhabi's/al qaeda. if the us doesn't sell them stuff, they'll buy it somewhere else.

us foreign policy is not about democracy or freedom, it never has been -- it's about protecting us interests. or, more accurately, the interests of the ruling elite. and it's certainly never been far-sighted -- this is an attempt to shore up the sorry situation that is the middle east. it's nothing new -- witness rumsfeld and cheney selling weapons to saddam hussein to counter iran. before that, they were selling equipment to the iranian shah. before that, they deposed rashid ali to protect their oil supply in ww2.

skybird, it's business as usual -- why's everyone so surprised or shocked?

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by caspofungin

pull the rug out from the saudi government and in a couple of years you'll have a country run by the taleban mk 2.

Exactly.

Oh yeah, welcome back.

[Steel_Tomb]

*sigh*, when will the yanks learn? They did the same thing in Africa during the Cold War to keep them on side, and look what happened. Constant war with countless unecessary deaths. They gave F-14's to Iran and look what happened. I think they are doing this so that if the **** hits the fan with Iran they might have someone on side. Although its more likely to end up biteing the yanks in the ass, as do most of their administrations policies

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by Steel_Tomb

They gave F-14's to Iran and look what happened.

But it's not quite on the scale of the US and UK involvement in Operation Ajax which resulted in a coup d' etat with the overthrow of a democratic government to be replaced by a corrupt regime headed by the Shah (Pahlavī dynasty).

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by caspofungin

skybird, it's business as usual -- why's everyone so surprised or shocked?

I'm neither the one, nor the other, its just aboiut this endless chain of disappointments, and the lack of reason in supporting state-funded international terrorism.

There is nothing new under the sun - except what has previously been forgotten. Since ancient times we do the same mistakes over and over and over again, but each time the stakes are a bit higher, the clubs are bigger, and the swords are sharper. Guess where it is leading.