VIIB or VIIC

[MENTAT]

Why would anyone prefers VIIC over VIIB and throws tons of renowns and upgrades to trash?

VIIC has lower submerged range and speed!

[danurve]

The viiC was the workhorse, I am a viiB fan but plan to get a viiC/41 (playable) if a current carrer survives long enough to get one!

[CaptainNemo12]

Better upgrades in the long-run. Try fighting the same aircraft with the AA armament of a VIIb than a VIIc/41.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by MENTAT

Why would anyone prefers VIIC over VIIB and throws tons of renowns and upgrades to trash?

The VIIC dives faster and has better upgrades available later in the war (more conning tower options, for example).

A 0.4 knot maximum speed difference underwater makes no big difference, especially considering you won't be using high speeds underwater very much. A 3 seconds faster dive time is a bigger advantage, imho.

[_Seth_]

Hi Tom, and welcome! I like the VIIC best, but the VIIB is a wonderful boat too, especially with the FLAK "island" behind the conning tower..

[IrischKapitan]

The VIIB is a far better boat in my opinion.

• When its engine is fully upgraded it can manage 21kts on the surface.
• I've timed the crash dive myself and at 21kts I can manage 25-27 seconds sepending on the weather
• The extra knot underwater can make a huge difference espically when manouvering to attack a convoy
• A soon as I come across an aircraft I crash dive. Fighting it out on the surface is just a waste of time, ammo and puts an unesasery risk on my mens lives.

• The VIIB looks way cooler too with the flak ''island'' and the nifty wire cutter on the bow.
• It can make an extra 10 miles underwater because the VIIC is heavier.

All these advantages make the VIIB a far better game boat.

EDIT: Welcome to the Silent Service Tom !!

[spork542]

Both boat types are good, but VIIC has more upgrades once you get to 42-43 onwards. It's all a matter of preference I suppose, but few VIIBs were still in combat service in 43-45, and all that were had been lost. So I just stick with VIIC in all cases during 43-45 because of this fact. I also find the 3 seconds really makes a difference. Sometimes the 27 seconds even is not enough to avoid damage from aircraft. At one point in a VIIC in 44, my boat was bombed, and I took heavy damage despite the crash dive. 3 seconds more on the surface would have resulted in certain death.

Edit: Welcome to the site, Tom!

[Tom]

Originally Posted by IrischKapitan

• When its engine is fully upgraded it can manage 21kts on the surface.
• I've timed the crash dive myself and at 21kts I can manage 25-27 seconds sepending on the weather
• The extra knot underwater can make a huge difference espically when manouvering to attack a convoy
• A soon as I come across an aircraft I crash dive. Fighting it out on the surface is just a waste of time, ammo and puts an unesasery risk on my mens lives.

• The VIIB looks way cooler too with the flak ''island'' and the nifty wire cutter on the bow.
• It can make an extra 10 miles underwater because the VIIC is heavier.

Good points. I'm not saying the VIIB is a bad boat at all. Actually that's what I'm using right now (3rd patrol, January 1940). I guess that the way I play the game, I don't get to appreciate the advantages you listed:

- I never upgrade my engines, because, if I've understood correctly, this wasn't historically acurate.
- When attacking convoys I seldom move at higher than 2-4 knots underwater. I manuever to a favorable attack position on the surface before diving. The only time I use flank speed underwater is to dive quickly when I'm detected, or for short bursts when depthcharged.
- I also dive as soon as I see an aircraft (I'm playing GWX 1.03, 100% realism), unless I'm surprised when loading external torpedoes. In those cases I usually die. Well, last time I got off with one crew member dead and repairable damage, but that was in October 1939 and against a single plane. I think that's the only plane I've ever managed to shoot down in GWX.
- Personally I don't like how the VIIB extra 'flak island' looks. Maybe that's just me. The wire cutter is cool though.
- Yes, better underwater range is a definite advantage. But my experience is that I tend to run out of oxygen before battery power, if I can't shake whatever is hunting me.

Thus, I still argue that the faster dive time is an advantage I appreciate more than better underwater speed and range.

Oh, and thanks _Seth_ and IrischKapitan for your welcomes. I've been around for some time, but only reading the forums, never actually contributing in any way. Perhaps now, that I got over the first post (the first one is always the worst one, right?), you'll see me around.

[IrischKapitan]

Originally Posted by Tom

- When attacking convoys I seldom move at higher than 2-4 knots underwater. I manuever to a favorable attack position on the surface before diving. The only time I use flank speed underwater is to dive quickly when I'm detected, or for short bursts when depthcharged.

Running Parrell to a convoy wont get you detected because the mechants messes with the DD hydraphones. I've only used flank speed at a convoy a couple of times (eg. if Im attacking during the day or I started at a bad position in the first place). But its nice to know you have the Extra knot if you need it.

Edit: Cool Ive being promoted!!

[Penelope_Grey]

VIIC offers far more by way of technological advantages. All the best gear.

[IrischKapitan]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

VIIC offers far more by way of technological advantages. All the best gear.

Yes good point.... My tip is stay with the VIIB until the end of 41, then upgrade to the VIIC and get all the fancy gizmos

[Schöneboom]

It seems to be a recurrent theme with technology that an upgrade doesn't always feel like an upgrade at first -- mensch, just look at the history of Windows!

This reminds me also of WWII aircraft; I often felt the same way about the Me109E vs. the later models -- the Jerries had a great design early on, but they had to keep improving it, thus introducing new advantages and disadvantages.

By 1942 I'd be more concerned with getting the latest radar detectors.

Mach's gut!

[GibsonSG]

I am driving a type VIIB at the moment (1940), out of Wilhelmshaven. I don't have enough reknown yet, but there is a type IX available...any thoughts on that one? I have never had one. Would I be better off saving up for a VIIC?

Welcome to the boards Tom.

[Schöneboom]

Oh, what fun you'd have in a Type IX, GibsonSG! Visit exotic, faraway places: the Caribbean, Africa, SE Asia! Stay at sea till your beard grows down to your waist!

The downside: You have to be even more careful with the IX, 'cause it doesn't dive as fast, it's a big target, and turns like a cow.

[Jimbuna]

Welcome aboard Kaleun Tom