China overtakes the U.S...in CO2 pollution

[Sea Demon]

OK. All those who've badgered the USA about not ratifying the Kyoto accords, it's now up to you to start badgering China about their emissions standards. C'mon. What are you waiting for? Where are your incessant calls for them to sign and ratify the Kyoto protocols???

http://environment.guardian.co.uk/cl...d=networkfront

[TteFAboB]

They're going to convert their dollar reserves into Carbon Credits.

[Steel_Tomb]

Its just emerged that they (the Chinese) are building two coal power stations a WEEK! That is just crazy! Its begs the question, why are the rest of us (like in the UK and europe) cutting emissions just so China can fill the bloody gap, its madness. The sooner we stop buying cheap Chinese products the quicker we will get their emissions down.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Steel_Tomb

The sooner we stop buying cheap Chinese products ...

You can wait for an eternity and it still will not sink into the public's mind. When they are standing in line at the cashdesk and can savea few cents or dollars when buying a chinese-made item - guess what they will do!? This will not make them stop complaining about suffering from wage dumping and home companies cutting jobs and work being transferred to Asia, of course.

Seen that way, people get what they deserve. They just do not want to get reminded of that.

I for myself stick to buying German brands for that reason, although it costs a bit more in most cases.

China:
in preparatory meetings before Heiligendamm, the Chinese indicated that they would be willing to move a bit in climate protection. then came bush again ruling out any american willingness at all to cut American emission levels, knowing all too well that this would be the excuse the chinese and Indians wanted to hide behind and not doing something themselves. too. And I am very sure that this is exactly what Bush calculated for, and seeing Sea Demon'S posting, his calculations works just fine: now nobody seem to be willing to really do anything anymore. So, so much for that.

the whole Heilgendamm show was a fake. It did not go beyond lip confessions and declaration of intentions for negotiating more in the future, outcome and timetable open. Exactly what Bush wanted. How Merkel could celebrate this as a breakthrough is a complete mystery to me.

Germany is to build many new browncoal powerplants too, btw. They are replacing older powerplants and in comparison may cause less pollution than the old ones, nevertheless - building more sites of the most pollutive powerplant-type and further invest into using the most dirty energy ressource there is...?

Politicians and economy-lobbies will be our downfall. To hell with all of them. They even are not suitable for being used as reactor shields, so what on earth are they good for? The best argument against democracy are the political parties themselves.

[Sailor Steve]

CO2? Carbon Dioxide? Not CO, Carbon Monoxide?

China has always been the biggest CO2 producer, since CO2 is what we humans and all other animals breathe out. It's also what plants need to breathe in. I'm getting more confused every day.

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

CO2? Carbon Dioxide? Not CO, Carbon Monoxide?

China has always been the biggest CO2 producer, since CO2 is what we humans and all other animals breathe out. It's also what plants need to breathe in. I'm getting more confused every day.

It's all Booshes fault...

[Steel_Tomb]

yeah co2 is used by plants, but at the rate that we are cutting down forests there is too much spare co2 which is increasing temperatures.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Skybird

And I am very sure that this is exactly what Bush calculated for, and seeing Sea Demon'S posting, his calculations works just fine: now nobody seem to be willing to really do anything anymore. So, so much for that.

Actually, no. I'm just waiting for those who badger America about emissions to turn toward China and harass them about their disgusting lakes, rivers, air quality, and emissions. All of which seem worse than America now, and getting worse. It's really quite simple why I bring this up. I really just love to test the intellectual honesty and integrity of America bashers. They quite often show themselves not to be honest, intellectual, or to have any real integrity whatsoever. I actually hope some looney lefty environuts will go and protest in downtown Beijing over this.

[U-533]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

Actually, no. I'm just waiting for those who badger America about emissions to turn toward China and harass them about their disgusting lakes, rivers, air quality, and emissions. All of which seem worse than America now, and getting worse. It's really quite simple why I bring this up. I really just love to test the intellectual honesty and integrity of America bashers. They quite often show themselves not to be honest, intellectual, or to have any real integrity whatsoever. I actually hope some looney lefty environuts will go and protest in downtown Beijing over this.

It will never happen...

The looney lefty environuts know Chinese tanks can squash you.
This has yet to be proven about American tanks.

[August]

What i'd like to know is how China, with it's roaring economy and increasing international power can still be considered a "developing nation".

[Tchocky]

Rather low GDP per capita, still developing economy, rural poverty.

It is still a developing nation, even though a very rapid one

Originally Posted by August

What i'd like to know is how China, with it's roaring economy and increasing international power can still be considered a "developing nation".

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Rather low GDP per capita, still developing economy, rural poverty.

It is still a developing nation, even though a very rapid one

The result of marxism and communism is that nations under those systems will always be 'third world/developing'.

[Heibges]

Originally Posted by Steel_Tomb

yeah co2 is used by plants, but at the rate that we are cutting down forests there is too much spare co2 which is increasing temperatures.

Except for Israel, which increases the number of trees every year. They really lead the way in this regard.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

Actually, no. I'm just waiting for those who badger America about emissions to turn toward China and harass them about their disgusting lakes, rivers, air quality, and emissions. All of which seem worse than America now, and getting worse. It's really quite simple why I bring this up. I really just love to test the intellectual honesty and integrity of America bashers. They quite often show themselves not to be honest, intellectual, or to have any real integrity whatsoever. I actually hope some looney lefty environuts will go and protest in downtown Beijing over this.

The difference between lobbying America to curb emmissions and lobbying China is that America is the moral leader for much of the economic world. What the US does it can force others to do. China... you could make China do all sorts of things if the neo-conservative economic mindset thats ingrained in our times didn't make us so afraid of damaging the growth of the economy over the short term. Whatever you want to say about China, when Deng Xiao Ping basically made China into a Capitalist Oligarchy in the 80s the alleged Free Market had an orgasm. The morality of the environment is mitigated by the need to produce more wealth. The head honcho is still the US. The US slows down more reforms that any other nation at the UN. Just look at the Veto records. At the G8 and the WTO too.

In the short the benefits of the Chinese rise falls most of all to the entrepeneurs who have invested in that market. In the long haul the US will be hurt by this but the nation isn't at the heart of the interests. The wealthy elite that run the investments would just as easily live in Beijing. They are also the people who run the foreign policy of the United States.

You always look for the head of the snake because the body always follows behind it.

[Tchocky]

Well, who's buying from China?

The Chinese? Barely