Ha...! I knew it! The Poles at it again!

[Skybird]

http://www.welt.de/politik/article98...erhandeln.html

Remember that "compromise" at the EU summit a week ago? The twins have thought about it again - and decided to change their mind. The compromise said that in 2014 the new votiung system should be phased in, and become binding for Poland as well in 2017. Now they want to have extra privileges beyond that date, distorting a precedence case that said that a minority veto could stop an issue until the next summit - the twins take that example and read it as blocking the issue for two years.

I said it was a very big mistake that when Merkel threatened to leave them out (finally, as a last measure and lots of concessions already made!), several countires fell in her back and said: no, no matter the cost, at all cost we must must make them go with us, no matter how high the price is. I said that this is encouraging bullying the EU in the future, and teaches a lesson of destructive politics being rewarded, and being a precedence for trying it again and again, and inviting othersa to do like that, too.

The twins have introduced a level of destructivism to EU politics that has been unknown before. According to them, Poland is the navel of the earth, it seems, and crushing Germany for no other purpose than crushing germany is a legitimate political goal.

No "compromises" this time, please. They either respect what they already got (and that is already much more than what they legitimately deserve), or they get kicked out, so to speak. Who needs such a destructive Poland anyway? This givernment obviously knows nothing baout how to responsibly act on the international political stage. The people better make sure that this will not continue after their next election. My impression is that the whole twin-desaster already started to backfire on Poland anyway - their reputation is in free fall, people have started to see them as a plague, and as an anonymous top diplomat at the EU put it during the summit: "At the EU everbody is sick and tired of them".

[Skybird]

English:

http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/sto...114733,00.html

[Tchocky]

How about a cross-border "policing action"?

Although it's hard to think of a European country that hasn't done this before
They don't call it Europe's parade ground for nothing

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

How about a cross-border "policing action"?

Cheap. Such comments you can keep for thyself.

Although it's hard to think of a European country that hasn't done this before
They don't call it Europe's parade ground for nothing

Relativising again?

No. Never in the EU's history has a country been acting so destructively, and openly aiming at doing as much damage to it's neighbour as possible. Even the British where not as aggressive back then whehn they demanded their speciaol rabates. I think there is a reason why this destructive side of current Polish government is critized and explicitly pointed out from politicians throughout Europe.

If somebody constantly and over and over again behaves like the bully of the block, he deserves to be named as that. Poland's acting is without example in the history of the EU.

Giving her farewell-speech to the EU presidency at Brussel, Merkel said - loosely translated - something like this: "Friendship, trust and cooperation that has been built in years and even decades, can easily eventually be shattered in just one night." And she added in her next sentence: "Yes, that is true - it can eventually be shattered in just one night." Guess whom that was pointed at... She got loud ovations in the EU parliament when she was finished.

[Hakahura]

Wish you would lay off Poland Skybird.

They are just looking out for their own interests first and foremost.
To bad if it does not suit Germany or the rest of Eurolands agenda.

I for one am glad to see politicians that are not afraid to upset the apple cart for a change.

Just hope Gordon Brown is paying attention and decides to stand up for Britain.

[Hakahura]

The continual Pole bashing is getting a bit tedious.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Cheap. Such comments you can keep for thyself.

Fun Police!

Relativising again?

*thinks*

...no, but I can if you'd like.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Hakahura

Wish you would lay off Poland Skybird.

They are just looking out for their own interests first and foremost.

What a relief to know. If all EU members would do like them, we would have had several wars again since WWII.

To bad if it does not suit Germany or the rest of Eurolands agenda.

So that is an attitude of being destructive for the sake of being destructive only - like the twins practice themselves.

Obviously you have a problem with some basic principles of democracy. While no more trustworthy legal validity also is of no concern for you. It is only about the bad ugly Huns again, right? Of course the problem cannot be Polish ultra-nationalism and seek-to-destroy revanchism? Could you tell me why a majority of Polish population is said to be appalled by the way their twin government has confronted the summit? And why - a subjective story from me, but true - the three Polish people I happen to know also say they are horrified by the damage the twins are doing to the reputation of their people, and the way they blackmail Europe?

Unfortunately, this is not a Polish-German issue alone. All europe is affected. The Poles wanted their voting power doubled on the basis of nothing. they said their voting power is twice as much of worth and value than that of any other (not only germans!). Then they wanted the right to endlessly veto and block any decision by the community they do not like, and then accepted to get the veto power that fully corresponds to the size of their nation, and is much higher than their general economical contribution to the EU's general productivity, plus the ability to block any decision during another three years of phasing in the new representative voting system. After having agreed to that - now they say "Ätschi-Bätschi! Angeschmiert! We want the right to block every European decision that we do not like, for two years, no wait: for all time to come, eternally! WE deicde which decision goes through, and which one not" They do not care a bit for majority decisions, and their bezhavior illustrates that they seek imperial tyrannic power - if not to enforce the way of goings they want to have, then at least to block every majoirty decisiuon they do not like.

I for one am glad to see politicians that are not afraid to upset the apple cart for a change.

... no matter what their cause is. Clever of you! I prefer to fight only when the cause is just. Which here is not the case.

Maybe Germany should reduce it'S financial contributions to the EU. What Poland takes from the EU alone is equal to the money germqany pays to Brussel. Usually, we have a strong economical interest in an open europe to which we can send our exports. But if payong fopr one quarter of the EU budget is causing single players to abuse us as the paymaster of Europe, while at the same time they put all the Nazi-time on present living generation's shoulders, mock at us, and offend us time and again, then I must come to the conclusion that maybe it is not worth it to pay anymore for such neighbours. As I said, I know Poles, and knew some in the past. Father of a family in my house is Polish, our house gardener, and a colleague at work. They all said they are somewhat ashamed, and would like to see the EU and Germany to isolate the current government in Warsaw and ignore them.

What more must one say?


And concenring that "Poland bashing" thing:

in this thread (not started by me!) http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=117115 I said concerning the Polish people, and the Polish politics:

Originally Posted by Skybird

In no way they are representing a majority. Maybe not more than 20%. On a private, inter-human level, relations between Polish and Germans for the most are good, when ignoring that ultranationalistic parts of the Polish press did not hesitate to compare Merkel with Hitler, or Germany and Russia planning to crush Poland again, amongst other "jokes".
(...)
Let'S see if the twins will get elected again next time. If so - then it is early enough to confront the Polish and hold them responsible for their voting, because then it is a repitition of what in the first vote maybe was just an experiment for many. Until then, Germany should have the sovereignity to simply sit them out without provoking them and feeding their ressentiments. Last but not least, the twins cost the Polish many sympathies throughout Europe, and right now almost all states already shake their heads about them. In the main - they are damaging Poland, not Germany.

note that in that same thrwad I somewhere said that I wished the summit to fail to force politicians to recognize that they cannot leave out the people of europe and expect them to see that as "democratic". I wished Blair and the Poles good luck in staying adamant in their rjection. So, my problejm is not on level of the treaty, but in the general hostile, irresponsible and destructive attitude that does not reject the treaty for being not a good one, but that tries to blackmail Europe to get more power than what is yours, and try to inflict as much damage on your neighbour as possible.

And on the difference between the Polish people, and the Polish politics, again here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=117235

Originally Posted by Skybird

I want to reiterate again - like i already said earlier - that my anger, when talking of "Poland", is with the twins, and the coalition parties, and the camp of the ultraconservative and nationalistic political faction in Poland. This counts for maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the whole population, so my impression, and that is what several Polish journalists on Germnn TV inrecent weeks also were indicating. Which means that the majority of Poles probably does not share the official Polish hostility towards Germany. On level of private relations between citizens from both countries, i think the majority of interhuman experiences is positive.

I certainly would help if the moderate majority would try more to prevent leaving the Polish policies to the extremists.

And this report on a recent poll: http://www.welt.de/politik/article97...mpathisch.html

It says the finding was that two of three Germans on private levels and in personal relation like the Polish and find them very sympathetic, only one in five said he does not lke them. Subjectively seen, I would say that is close to the truth.

But two in five see the political relations as stressed and damaged, one in five says they are good.

[Hakahura]

Now I have a problem with democracy

[Penelope_Grey]

Originally Posted by Hakahura

The continual Pole bashing is getting a bit tedious.

In Llanelli in south Wales, Polish, has overtook Welsh as the second language.

Also, there have been a number of complaints to police from locals who have had run ins from the Poles. My neice works in Asda there, a Polish woman came in and threatened to punch her in the face because she couldn't refund without the recipt. The manager had to threaten to call security.

Poles seem, both at micro and macro levels very brazen when it comes to getting what they want.

[Hakahura]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

In Llanelli in south Wales, Polish, has overtook Welsh as the second language.

Quite possibly true.

But have you ever tried to learn to speak any Welsh?
Polish has got to be easier:rotfl:

Not that I've got anything against the Welsh,
Well except when they beat us at Rugby

[Penelope_Grey]

LOL Im fluent in Welsh, can understand it perfectly.

I prefer English though.