Found "improvement" mod to install over LWAMI

[BarjackU977]

Hello,

A friend found this mod on a french web site dedicated to naval sims.
As said in the title, it is meant to be installed over LWAMI.

Summed up and translated, here is the list of changes:

• wire-guided active torps give feedback about what they detect (like the russian UUV "torp"): distance to contact, and bearing to contact
• wire-guided passive torps give feedback about what they detect: only bearing to contact
• detection of aerial objects on sonar, if they're at and altitude of 400 ft or less
• MAD/SAD takes mass and aspect into account, which means several passes are necessary to confirm a first measure/detection
• Changed missile speed: Harpoon to 562 kts, pinguin to 794 kts
• Speed of Los Angeles is back to 35 kts
• active and passive sonars take topography into account. No more detection si possible if there is an "obstacle" in between
• 65CM and 53-65K russian torpedoes get the two following modes (working simultaneously): wake-homing and passive

I'd like to have your comments on those changes.

[Dr.Sid]

Well .. what about saying where did you get it ?

Torpedo feedback was part of LWAMI and it was removed because it was impossible to avoid torpedoes.
I'm quite sure even stock DW sonars take topography into account, and I always thought wakehomers work like passive torps when not in the wake, but I'm not sure with this.

It seems to me as if somebody did not liked recent changes in 1.04/LWAMI and made his mini-mod to revert some things back, and for singleplayer purposes only, because of the CM issue.

[OneShot]

I'd be interested to know that this

MAD/SAD takes mass and aspect into account, which means several passes are necessary to confirm a first measure/detection

is all about ...

Because as it is, MAD/SAD takes into account how close you are to the sub and how deep it is (tho you cant really compute the depth from the output - and aspect has no relevance ... MAD detects the disturbance in the Magnetic Field done by the whole sub regardless of its direction upon detection). How I read this (quote) you would have to make multiple runs over the target to actually get a SAD readout (after you initially got a hit on the MAD). This however is incorrect ... the SAD is coupled to the MAD and takes its input from it (dont ask me how this works - i dont know). So if you get a MAD hit you should get a SAD hit immediatly too given that the sub is within the limits of the SAD.

Given the other points brought up by Dr.Sid I serious doubt that this is an "Improvement" ...

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by OneShot

I'd be interested to know that this

is all about ...

Because as it is, MAD/SAD takes into account how close you are to the sub and how deep it is (tho you cant really compute the depth from the output - and aspect has no relevance ... MAD detects the disturbance in the Magnetic Field done by the whole sub regardless of its direction upon detection). How I read this (quote) you would have to make multiple runs over the target to actually get a SAD readout (after you initially got a hit on the MAD). This however is incorrect ... the SAD is coupled to the MAD and takes its input from it (dont ask me how this works - i dont know). So if you get a MAD hit you should get a SAD hit immediatly too given that the sub is within the limits of the SAD.

Given the other points brought up by Dr.Sid I serious doubt that this is an "Improvement" ...

Hey OS, how about trying the mod before declaring on an unsubstatiated basis that its crap ?

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Well .. what about saying where did you get it ?

Torpedo feedback was part of LWAMI and it was removed because it was impossible to avoid torpedoes.
I'm quite sure even stock DW sonars take topography into account, and I always thought wakehomers work like passive torps when not in the wake, but I'm not sure with this.

It seems to me as if somebody did not liked recent changes in 1.04/LWAMI and made his mini-mod to revert some things back, and for singleplayer purposes only, because of the CM issue.

Dr.Sid do not go assuming things you know nothing about.
This mod, which by the way was created by the mille-sabords dw french comunity players extends the capabilities of the lwami mod all the while being compatibile with it. You don't like it, you think its crap ok, don't install it man. You're not going to die if you remain with lwami mod. And by the way lwami mod won't be the only mod around for dw there are already extensions to lwami and alternatives.
Oh I almost forgot, this mod was developped to enhance MULTIPLAYER, but maybe since you only play in singleplayer it won't affect you at all.
Just be happy man that there are other mods being developped.

[Dr.Sid]

Originally Posted by goldorak

Dr.Sid do not go assuming things you know nothing about.
This mod, which by the way was created by the mille-sabords dw french comunity players extends the capabilities of the lwami mod all the while being compatibile with it. You don't like it, you think its crap ok, don't install it man. You're not going to die if you remain with lwami mod. And by the way lwami mod won't be the only mod around for dw there are already extensions to lwami and alternatives.
Oh I almost forgot, this mod was developped to enhance MULTIPLAYER, but maybe since you only play in singleplayer it won't affect you at all.
Just be happy man that there are other mods being developped.

Huh .. I don't think it's crap or anything. I just say it reverts some recent changes in LWAMI (like torpedo feedback). And it was removed becuase of multiplayer. And I understant why.

1) I don't care if anybody mods anything in any way.
2) It's good thing it is possible.
3) It also seems that almost any multiplayer group uses some very own mod pack to suit their 'point of view'. That's perfectly ok.

I guess I must make my posts more positive. I'm trying to be neutral, but I'm getting misunderstood all the time. I'm really nice, calm, positive, most of the time even entertaining person . Well I do criticize a lot, but I don't mean it personally. If you feel offended by my posts, or you feel bitter moods coming from it, I apologize, I NEVER mean it so. But keep me informed, I understand both my English and communication protocols needs upgrades :rotfl:

[goldorak]

Dr Sid, if this new mod is 100% compatibile with lwami in my vocabulary that means that they haven't disabled things that were in the lwami mod. They just added new things without touching the excellent lwami.

Ps: I don't feel offended by your posts, what the heck I'm one that criticizes a lot of things in DW.
I just would like for you to try this mod before coming to conclusions that for all we know can be 100% just plain wrong.

[OneShot]

Well, I havent tried this AddOn Mod (how would you call a Mod of a Mod?) yet and to be honest I dont intend to try it out soon. However I think I did not simply "ditch" the mod ... Dr.Sid posted some points which should be "improved" by the mod and I questioned one of them based on the information I have gathered over the time from DW (and some responses I got way back from Jamie on certain aspects of the MAD system).

Based on this information I simply told my opinion ... that this particular point in fact is neither an improvement nor enhances realism (in my opinion). I might be right ... I might be wrong ... either way thats my opinion. And so far my original question stands unchallenged - because I have not heard what exactly has been changed and how this shall affect gameplay.

Since I can neither speak nor write/read french I'm kinda challenged when it comes to looking at the MilleSabord forums. Since online translators suck in my opinion especially when its about translating whole sentences so that they really make sense afterwards and convey what the author actually wanted to say ... well ...

Now before this deterogates this thread into name calling ... how bout you try and post an indepth review of what this addon mod accomplishes and even more interesting how it does that. That way we all have a basis on which we can argue ...

Cheers
OS

P.S. : When I think something is crap ... I say so. In this particular case I just doubted that this mod is really an improvement ... means I dont know either way for sure.

[TLAM Strike]

Well for my two cents:

active and passive sonars take topography into account. No more detection si possible if there is an "obstacle" in between
65CM and 53-65K russian torpedoes get the two following modes (working simultaneously): wake-homing and passive

These sound like a good idea. I think I asked for a feature like this on the TEST-71-NKE Torpedoes, but seems out of place on the 65-76K and 53-65K weapons.

wire-guided active torps give feedback about what they detect (like the russian UUV "torp"): distance to contact, and bearing to contact
wire-guided passive torps give feedback about what they detect: only bearing to contact

This was removed for a reason. As has been explaned.

detection of aerial objects on sonar, if they're at and altitude of 400 ft or less

wasn't there a bug with this and detecting missiles in flight?

[OneShot]

detection of aerial objects on sonar, if they're at and altitude of 400 ft or less

Yeah, I think Lw mentioned something back when he was working on the TIW for those SubRocs.

Aside from that, its one thing to hear something on broadband from a stationary Helicopter who is hovering 50ft above the water for some time ... its something else to hear an airplane like a P-3 flying at 170kts and 300ft above the water ... while TAs might be quite sensitive I'm not sure if this would work in reality - tho I'd like to have someone prove me wrong (with facts).

[nemo67]

I make a point of reassuring everyone the goal of this MOD test is not to separate the communities but rather to advance the gameplay for the world community

however the results of my MOD were not convincing thus us did not consider it useful at present to develop it of advantage or to diffuse it in a number

but be certain that if us arrivont with results convincing in the future all the community will be able to benefit from it

we do not have in the intention to create a new MOD and to make compete with the lwami but rather to make research and to transmit the results to lutwolf and amizaur in no we want to be in compet or to propose several MOD

the simplest remainder a single MOD (lwami)

[BarjackU977]

That sounds perfect to me! :-)

Originally Posted by nemo67

we do not have in the intention to create a new MOD and to make compete with the lwami but rather to make research and to transmit the results to lutwolf and amizaur in no we want to be in compet or to propose several MOD

the simplest remainder a single MOD (lwami)

[BarjackU977]

As for wired torpedoes being able to send feeback about contacts, did I understand well that ADCAP torpedoes do it, but not other torpedoes?

Maybe russian torpedoes do it as well?

[Bubblehead Nuke]

[quote=OneShot]

... its something else to hear an airplane like a P-3 flying at 170kts and 300ft above the water ... while TAs might be quite sensitive I'm not sure if this would work in reality - tho I'd like to have someone prove me wrong (with facts).

While I would love to provide you with facts, all I can provide is anecdotal evidence. I know back in the early 90's a sonarman told me they could hear a whale fart are a considerable distance. The fact that a plane makes a lot of noise (I grew up around P-3C's and other military planes) and that it would make a sound wave at the surface interface, I would not put it beyond the scope of reality.

Facts that told you that it was possible and just how sensitivity the sonar on a submarines is would EXTREMELY classified.

[NefariousKoel]

I think the best way to go about detecting low-flying aircraft on BB is only being able to do it at a fairly shallow depth. Not sure if we have that ability to mod it in, however.