Blind area in sub's baffles?

[DrMilton]

Is there a blind area behind a sub, even if it has a TA? I came across the game manual of "688 Attack Sub" (anyone remembers it?) according to which a sub with TA had a blind area approx. 45degs wide, in its baffles.

Recalling the "crazy ivan" maneuver of red october i wonder what exactly is the fact in RL. Personally I can't imagine the situation where USS Dallas went all stop and worried about "...bumping on the enemy sub" because they were that close...! The russian crew should all get reassigned to kitchen duties.

So, what is fact and what is fiction?

[Kapitan]

The reason for a TA is so a submarine can see behind it if you look at the kilo theres a black patch about 45 degrees behind where it is totaly blind, back in the cold war days russian submarines didnt have towed arrays so in order to get around and see if there was any one following was to do a crazy ivan.

The idea was if the enamy submarine was moving they would be close enough to detect the americans grew wise to it so SOP ment to stop and shut everything not nessasery down to avoid detection.

Whats more a crazy ivan is where a submarine will double back at high speed to see if your there immagine the 48,000 tonne typhoon doing that and slamming into a 688 at full pelt (30 knots) the 688 would be smashed to bits and sunk easily the phoon would have fair damage but could remain afloat due to thier hull design and 19 water tight compartments, but thats the reason.

[DrMilton]

Didn't the typhoons have TAs back then? That could explain it.

All the same though... It should take a heck of a good crew to bring your sub so close to the enemy undetected (pinpointing its location that well in 3D)

[Henson]

What an entertaining thread.

[Kapitan]

Typhoons only aquired the towed array in the mid to late 80's by then the only other subs trailing towed arrays fully were the vic III's sierras and akulas so im told.

[Dr.Sid]

Originally Posted by Henson

What an entertaining thread.

How many times did you hit russian typhoon making crazy ivan ? Please tell us !
:rotfl:

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by DrMilton

So, what is fact and what is fiction?

You'll never know. Sometimes I think I should write a cheesy submarine novel and see what happens.

[Captain Nemo]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

Typhoons only aquired the towed array in the mid to late 80's by then the only other subs trailing towed arrays fully were the vic III's sierras and akulas so im told.

I remember seeing a documentary on the Discovery channel a few years ago and it described a scenario using computer generated graphics, where a LA class sub was hunting a Typhoon under the ice pack. As part of the Typhoon's defence it had an Akula SSN in the immediate vicinity to detect any trailing enemy subs. The outcome of this particular scenario was that the Typhoon was sunk but the Akula managed to fire off a couple of torps in its defence, however, the LA class managed to evade and escape. Perhaps someone can comment on whether it was common practice for an SSBN to be accompanied by an SSN for protection?

Nemo

[LoBlo]

From what I've read, when Soviet SLBM technology matured enough that they could reach the US from across the globe, their SSBN patrols shifted from US coastal patrol zones (neccessary while the SLBM had short range) to very heavily protected SSBN "basins" Meaning large, but known zones of the ocean heavily protect by SSNs, ASW assets, and SSN escorts. From what articles/books I've read, Soviet tatics routinely had two subs (either 2 SSNs or 1 SSBN and 1 SSN) routinely working together.

[Kapitan]

The discovery channel programme i have on tape the one you mention, this is incorrect there would be no attack submarine within 30 miles of a boomer they only escort them during a firing exercise incase something goes wrong and to keep other submarines at bay, a normal patrol for a delta IV or a typhoon is no further than north cape and is generally under ice.

Russian SLBM's can reach targets well inside america without even needing to leave thier home ports, the typhoons SS-N-20 has over 8,000nm range moscow to new york is only i think 6,400nm roughly and dont forget the missile would be fired from above the artic circle and would take less time and distance to arrive on target.

SSN's stopped aiding SSBN's in the early to mid 1970's when the yankees came in they were so quiet and so good they didnt need an escort they could do everything them selves unlike the 1st generation.

If you look at the borey two towed arrays shrouded water jet propulsor 16 missiles water fall displays fully autonimus equipment it doesnt take a genius to work out the russians are now about en par with us westerners.

[Henson]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

SSN's stopped aiding SSBN's in the early to mid 1970's when the yankees came in they were so quiet and so good they didnt need an escort they could do everything them selves unlike the 1st generation.

Oh...Yankee was an incredible platform...just incredible.

:hmm:

[Kapitan]

It depends how you view the platform, for the russians yes it was incredible for the americans it was more screw you youve copied us.

for the russians going from 3 missiles to 16 in a few years thats pretty dam qwick for them, whats more it was quieter than any other sub in the fleet during the first part of its life.