Venezuela to get Kilos

[Oberon]

http://english.pravda.ru/news/russia...ia_venezuela-0

http://en.rian.ru/world/20070614/67195446.html

http://www.boston.com/news/world/lat...an_submarines/

Amurs to follow?

[AntEater]

Well, here's a new boogieman for Tom Clancy and the likes!

Having submarines and knowing how to operate them are two seperate things. From personal experience, I was less than impressed with latin american navies but I have no experience with the Venezuelan navy, though. Only exception was Argentina, they seemed much more professional than the average to me.
Most latin american armed forces problems lie within the semi-aristocratic structure of those forces: to be short; officers are white, soldiers are indios. It might be that Chavez's "bolivarian revolution" actually turned the armed forces into a far more effective force, as the white "old money" families from which latin american officers come have lost much influence in Venezuela.
On the other hand, a navy tends to be conservative and socialist revolutions have a tendency to leave a navy in shambles (while often actually originating in a navy ).
I often hear about weapons purchases but I would be far more interested if and how Chavez has changed the Venezuelan armed forces from a typical latin american aristocratic coup and parade force into a cuban style people's army.
But with such drastic changes, both in equipment from american to russian as well as in social composition, I don't expect the Venezuelan armed forces to be really effective right now.
In 10 years or so however, it might be another story.

[Officerpuppy]

Wonder if other South American countries will raise an eyebrow like Peru and Chile which have pretty good navies I think.

[XabbaRus]

I remember Andy Macnab's book about his time in the SAS when they went to Colunbia to train anti-narc specops and when it came to weapons they tried to carry as much as they could with bandlearoes and revolvers al over the place like the wild west.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

I remember Andy Macnab's book about his time in the SAS when they went to Colunbia to train anti-narc specops and when it came to weapons they tried to carry as much as they could with bandlearoes and revolvers al over the place like the wild west.

Wonder if they'll try and weld extra launchers to the Kilo? Just one big front mass of torpedo tubes...hell, one of those torpedoes has got to hit something, surely?

Either that or they'll hire a Taepo from the DPRK and try and convert the Kilo into an SSB by welding a launch tube to its conning tower. :rotfl:

[Heibges]

I thought kilos came from South America? Oh, we're talking about submarines!

[XabbaRus]

Has anyone read the article in the Guardian from front page of subsim.

what the hell does that "independent defence analyst" Pavel Felgenhauer on about.

Pavel Felgenhauer, an independent military analyst, said: "In the submarine world, it's the equivalent of a Lada. It's non-nuclear, runs on diesel-electric, and has a snorkel. Russia simply doesn't have the technology to produce modern torpedoes."

And before that "based on a model the Germans were using in WWII" Yea if it were a bunch of Foxtrots. The Kilo might not be the best diesel sub but to write it off is stupid.
I am pretty sure the Russians are quite capable of making modern torpedos. Whether they sell them abroad is a different matter.

[Steel_Tomb]

Well IIRC the Russians have the Shykval (sp?) or something, it extends fins to reduce drag in the water and is super fast so that nothing can stop it. Its a carrier killer!

[Kapitan]

Russians only export the 53 series of torpedos abroad the skhval has never been up for full export but has been on show in forign countries there was an export one designed but never made a hit.

A kilo is still as deadly as the next nuclear sub for a start its armed and run by a country of people hence why its a threat.

[NefariousKoel]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

Has anyone read the article in the Guardian from front page of subsim.

what the hell does that "independent defence analyst" Pavel Felgenhauer on about.

And before that "based on a model the Germans were using in WWII" Yea if it were a bunch of Foxtrots. The Kilo might not be the best diesel sub but to write it off is stupid.
I am pretty sure the Russians are quite capable of making modern torpedos. Whether they sell them abroad is a different matter.

LOL.

It's The Guardian. What do you expect? Accuracy? :rotfl:

[AntEater]

Isnt wrong per se, as basically all postwar diesel submarines are based on the type XXI.
But I have the feeling they confused Venezuela's existing type 209 subs with the Kilos.
Type 209s are really a mixture of design features of type XXI and smaller postwar german subs, which are in turn based on designs made during wartime (type XXX and such).

Regarding supercavitating torpedoes, while it definitely is rocket science (rocket driven) a lot of countries are experimenting with them and the russians do not have a monopoly on the technology, they just have the first operational model.

[Steel_Tomb]

Hmmm... HMS Astute + supercavitating topredo = a very dead kilo (when it actually gets in the water lol).

[XabbaRus]

I don't think "It's the Guardian" what do you expect accuracy has anything to do with it. The Guardian is a decent paper though sometimes I read it inconjunction with the Times to get balance.

It has nothing to do with the Guardian per se but newspapers digging up these analysts who make stupid comments.

anyway I am writing them a letter.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by AntEater

Isnt wrong per se, as basically all postwar diesel submarines are based on the type XXI.

Ummm no. Subs like the Whiskey/Zulu, Romeo, and Foxtrot, and Tango class (from the Russian side) and GUPPY, and Tang/Dater class from the US Side are based on the Type XXI submarines of WWII. Submarines like the Barbel (and its Japanse bult decendents) and Kilo/Amur class are based on the Albacore design which itself is based on the Holland designs of the 1900's. But thats not so say the Technolgy of the Type XXI didn't make it in to those submarines just the design is based on something totaly diffrent.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by NefariousKoel

It's The Guardian. What do you expect? Accuracy? :rotfl:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116720

So you'll probably get a proper answer, Xabba