Where do you stand on Map Updates?

siber · 06-13-07, 04:45 PM

Hi all.

I'm playing regularly now and, although in 1939/1940, am getting quite successful at high realism (as shown in tag). However, I'm generally pulling in 20k+ tonnes per patrol, sinking between 4 and 6 merchants each time out, and am wondering (in the name of 'simulation' rather than 'game') about knocking realism up to 100%.

When I try this though, I noticed that I got 100% realism WITHOUT map updates disabled - it makes no difference to the realism settings whether map updates is on or off.

If I turn off map updates though, I'll only be able to find ships that the crew see or hear. Contacts won't be plotted on the map as if reported by BdU or after being spotted nearby by (simulated) other friendly subs or aircraft, right?

So which setting is best for realism? Map updates off, but losing updates which might have really been reported by friendly assets that SHIII can't simulate realistically? Or map updates on, but fed far more information (range/course of targets and ship size etc) than would really be available?

What do you all think? Any comments/thoughts appreciated!

GoldenRivet · 06-13-07, 05:35 PM

personally I leave them on... it provides you with a greater situational awareness that you dont get with a 2-d screen representing a 3-d world.

Schöneboom · 06-13-07, 06:04 PM

Personally I prefer map updates off -- but somehow a few distant ship icons manage to appear anyway with a bit of course & speed info (I regard that as intel from BdU). My own sonar & visual contacts don't appear at all, so I mark them, which gives a "realistic" level of inaccuracy. Quite a few times I've missed the interception point or wasted fuel pursuing a ship that was much farther away than I thought.

Mach's gut!

Heibges · 06-13-07, 06:10 PM

I use map updates, but keep the map pretty far zoomed out. I also use a mod that makes the tales disappear.

To me, this gives the illusions of other uboats out there looking for targets.

The only thing I have found that really gives you realistic tonnage is to no overuse/abuse the hydrophones. Doing this, I find on 33% of my patrols I will find no targets, and this really makes it realistic for me.

Sailor Steve · 06-13-07, 07:28 PM

I use the 'Assisted Plotting Mod'. Map Contact Updates on; you get sonar lines, but no map pictures while using the periscope or UZO. Once you ID the ship it shows up on the attack map, but no others do. It's as close to perfect as it can get...at least for me.

Canovaro · 06-14-07, 01:14 AM

I always play 100% without updates, and there are still contact updates, but they are few. Makes it feel more realistic.

Sawdust · 06-14-07, 05:21 AM

I use automatic map updates (that and external camera are the only "non-realistic" options I use), but I am considering diabling the map updates for my next patrol to see what it is like.

I imagine it will make things much more difficult: possibly more exciting...or maybe just frustrating. :hmm: We'll see how it goes.

To siber: IIRC, Automatic Map Updates is worth a hefty amount of "realism percent". You shouldn't be at 100% with it active...maybe you have a mod that is changing this?

ichso · 06-14-07, 05:52 AM

I play without the auto map updates too. In most cases it is more realistic and requires more thinking from the player to keep good awareness of the situation.

The only thing I that really annoys me is that the sonar contacts are off too. Once I THOUGHT I got chased by a destroyer and there where actually THREE of them -.- The sonar guy just couldn't really give me a hint in which directions they were, mostly just one of them at once.
I COULD place myself at the hydrophone all the time to get around this, but then I would not see whether the DC's shake the boat or not.
And besides I am the CAPTAIN and not the SONAR GUY

So is it possible to leave just the sonar contacts on the map on and visible contacts not ? The whole plotting-by-sighting thing is cool.

*wave*

Corsair · 06-14-07, 06:15 AM

All is drawn by hand on the map, don't even have a GPS positioning of my sub...

dcb · 06-14-07, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siber

If I turn off map updates though, I'll only be able to find ships that the crew see or hear. Contacts won't be plotted on the map as if reported by BdU or after being spotted nearby by (simulated) other friendly subs or aircraft, right?

Turning map updates off does not cancel the random contacts announced by other sources - planes, uboats, whatever... You still get them on map. It only cancels the display of contacts spotted by your crew.

I always play with map updates off. Whenever the watch crew announces a contact, I plot it on the map with pencil, ruler and, sometimes, protractor. After several plottings at 2 minutes each, I already get the general course and position of the contact. The same goes for convoys. It's more fun this way, I think, without an attack computer the kind of those installed in today's SSNs. Makes me work harder for a prey.
Coming to sonar contact lines, I can live without them. During an evasion, I frequently listen myself to the hydrophone, to have the situational awareness about who attacks me. Generally, it's enough to me having the SO announce the closest warship.

ichso · 06-14-07, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Coming to sonar contact lines, I can live without them. During an evasion, I frequently listen myself to the hydrophone, to have the situational awareness about who attacks me. Generally, it's enough to me having the SO announce the closest warship.

I don't like listening at the hydrophone by myself all the time. It is a good solution to keep track of the destroyers hunting you. But this makes me loose some of the atmosphere while playing. And on top of that does the turning wheel of the hydrophon turn too slow to get a really quick overview of the situation. So I would have to stay at the hydros most of the time to keep the situation correctly in mind.

Corsair · 06-14-07, 10:48 AM

When under attack from DDs, am always sitting at the hydrophone station, only place where I can make myself a picture of the situation as the sonar boy can only track the closest ship... (which closest ship can be sitting still while another further away is accelerating for a depth charge run from another direction...)

siber · 06-14-07, 10:49 AM

Well, I'm going to gve it a shot on fully realistic, map contacts off, the whole shabang!

I'll report back from Davy Jones' Locker about how difficult it is...

Puster Bill · 06-14-07, 10:57 AM

I don't use update map contacts. I did when I was first learning, but it was one of the first things I turned off.

Now, the only thing I leave enabled is stabilized view. I haven't quite got the hang of getting the range when the image is bouncing up and down.

And don't ignore your watch officer: On the surface, I use him to get ranges and bearings. That is what he is there for

ichso · 06-14-07, 11:10 AM

I think the not stabilized view gives me no real problems. If you are surfaced, the watch officer gives fairly accurate range measurements, and even if not, when being surfaced you can use the UZO which has always a very stabil view. Even if you turned the option off.
when submerged I only get problems at day and distances beyond 3km. Then it can become a bit tricky to get accurate ranges to plan the attack correctly. But as soon as one gets nearly into firing range, the unstabilized view is not much of a problem anymore.

06-13-07, 04:45 PM	#1
siber Planesman Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Salford, Manchester, UK Posts: 182 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Where do you stand on Map Updates? Hi all. I'm playing regularly now and, although in 1939/1940, am getting quite successful at high realism (as shown in tag). However, I'm generally pulling in 20k+ tonnes per patrol, sinking between 4 and 6 merchants each time out, and am wondering (in the name of 'simulation' rather than 'game') about knocking realism up to 100%. When I try this though, I noticed that I got 100% realism WITHOUT map updates disabled - it makes no difference to the realism settings whether map updates is on or off. If I turn off map updates though, I'll only be able to find ships that the crew see or hear. Contacts won't be plotted on the map as if reported by BdU or after being spotted nearby by (simulated) other friendly subs or aircraft, right? So which setting is best for realism? Map updates off, but losing updates which might have really been reported by friendly assets that SHIII can't simulate realistically? Or map updates on, but fed far more information (range/course of targets and ship size etc) than would really be available? What do you all think? Any comments/thoughts appreciated! __________________ Using GWX 3.0 at 100% realism, OLC's 'Ubermod' & Torpdamagefinal

06-13-07, 05:35 PM	#2
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	personally I leave them on... it provides you with a greater situational awareness that you dont get with a 2-d screen representing a 3-d world. __________________

06-13-07, 06:04 PM	#3
Schöneboom Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 651 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	Personally I prefer map updates off -- but somehow a few distant ship icons manage to appear anyway with a bit of course & speed info (I regard that as intel from BdU). My own sonar & visual contacts don't appear at all, so I mark them, which gives a "realistic" level of inaccuracy. Quite a few times I've missed the interception point or wasted fuel pursuing a ship that was much farther away than I thought. Mach's gut! __________________ Dietrich Schöneboom, U-431 "Es wird klappen, Herr Kaleun. Ganz sicher."

06-13-07, 06:10 PM	#4
Heibges Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 1,633 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I use map updates, but keep the map pretty far zoomed out. I also use a mod that makes the tales disappear. To me, this gives the illusions of other uboats out there looking for targets. The only thing I have found that really gives you realistic tonnage is to no overuse/abuse the hydrophones. Doing this, I find on 33% of my patrols I will find no targets, and this really makes it realistic for me. __________________ U.Kdt.Hdb B. I. 28) This possibility of using the hydrophone to help in detecting surface ships should, however, be restricted to those cases where the submarine is unavoidably compelled to stay below the surface. http://www.hackworth.com/

06-13-07, 07:28 PM	#5
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I use the 'Assisted Plotting Mod'. Map Contact Updates on; you get sonar lines, but no map pictures while using the periscope or UZO. Once you ID the ship it shows up on the attack map, but no others do. It's as close to perfect as it can get...at least for me. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

06-14-07, 01:14 AM	#6
Canovaro Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,062 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	I always play 100% without updates, and there are still contact updates, but they are few. Makes it feel more realistic.

06-14-07, 05:21 AM	#7
Sawdust Planesman Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Quadrant DB22 Posts: 198 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I use automatic map updates (that and external camera are the only "non-realistic" options I use), but I am considering diabling the map updates for my next patrol to see what it is like. I imagine it will make things much more difficult: possibly more exciting...or maybe just frustrating. :hmm: We'll see how it goes. To siber: IIRC, Automatic Map Updates is worth a hefty amount of "realism percent". You shouldn't be at 100% with it active...maybe you have a mod that is changing this? __________________ .-. --- ..- --. .... ... . .- ... .- .... . .- -..

06-14-07, 05:52 AM	#8
ichso Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Germany's oldest city alive Posts: 1,066 Downloads: 57 Uploads: 0	I play without the auto map updates too. In most cases it is more realistic and requires more thinking from the player to keep good awareness of the situation. The only thing I that really annoys me is that the sonar contacts are off too. Once I THOUGHT I got chased by a destroyer and there where actually THREE of them -.- The sonar guy just couldn't really give me a hint in which directions they were, mostly just one of them at once. I COULD place myself at the hydrophone all the time to get around this, but then I would not see whether the DC's shake the boat or not. And besides I am the CAPTAIN and not the SONAR GUY So is it possible to leave just the sonar contacts on the map on and visible contacts not ? The whole plotting-by-sighting thing is cool. wave

06-14-07, 06:15 AM	#9
Corsair Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toulouse France Posts: 1,140 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	All is drawn by hand on the map, don't even have a GPS positioning of my sub... __________________ NYGM 3.4A / Living SH3 V5.1 + SH3 Commander

06-14-07, 10:48 AM	#12
Corsair Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toulouse France Posts: 1,140 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	When under attack from DDs, am always sitting at the hydrophone station, only place where I can make myself a picture of the situation as the sonar boy can only track the closest ship... (which closest ship can be sitting still while another further away is accelerating for a depth charge run from another direction...) __________________ NYGM 3.4A / Living SH3 V5.1 + SH3 Commander

06-14-07, 10:49 AM	#13
siber Planesman Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Salford, Manchester, UK Posts: 182 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Well, I'm going to gve it a shot on fully realistic, map contacts off, the whole shabang! I'll report back from Davy Jones' Locker about how difficult it is... __________________ Using GWX 3.0 at 100% realism, OLC's 'Ubermod' & Torpdamagefinal

06-14-07, 10:57 AM	#14
Puster Bill Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2006 Location: BA8758, or FN33eh for my fellow hams. Posts: 833 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I don't use update map contacts. I did when I was first learning, but it was one of the first things I turned off. Now, the only thing I leave enabled is stabilized view. I haven't quite got the hang of getting the range when the image is bouncing up and down. And don't ignore your watch officer: On the surface, I use him to get ranges and bearings. That is what he is there for __________________ The U-Boat Commander of Love

06-14-07, 11:10 AM	#15
ichso Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Germany's oldest city alive Posts: 1,066 Downloads: 57 Uploads: 0	I think the not stabilized view gives me no real problems. If you are surfaced, the watch officer gives fairly accurate range measurements, and even if not, when being surfaced you can use the UZO which has always a very stabil view. Even if you turned the option off. when submerged I only get problems at day and distances beyond 3km. Then it can become a bit tricky to get accurate ranges to plan the attack correctly. But as soon as one gets nearly into firing range, the unstabilized view is not much of a problem anymore.