Faking out the escorts?

MarkShot · 06-08-07, 03:59 PM

SH3 1.4b/GWX 1.03

Anyone try this technique?

It's dusk and I am running on the surface and have been spotted by the escorts. So, I turned tail and brought two escorts with me giving chase. I am thinking to submerged long range so that when then arrive at the spot that I went down, they won't find me. Then, in the mean time I will put some distance between us. I would like to surface in the darkness and hopefully leave the escorts still searching for me while I sprint off after convoy minus two escorts.

Reasonable or flawed logic?

MarkShot · 06-08-07, 04:12 PM

Well, so far so good, I have pulled 3 of 5 escorts out of position. If only there was a wolf pack out there tonight!!!

Foghladh_mhara · 06-08-07, 04:44 PM

As far as I remember though the escorts will only hunt you for 30 mins of game time. If they haven't regained contact with you at that point they will return to station. What will you be able to achieve in that time and will you have made any distance from your dive point?

MarkShot · 06-08-07, 04:51 PM

You are right the wimps gave up quickly. Well, I have read that later in the war, escorts might detach themselves from the screen and loiter for an extended period of time.

Also, this attempt was not totally without merit. In SH2/PA, escorts which were pulled out of formation from a convoy often never returned to the formation. Effectively, you would have stripped the convoy of a portion of its protection.

Finally, if there was a wolf pack, this would have been a nice tactic in assisting the other boats to make their attack unmolested.

Oh, well ...

Foghladh_mhara · 06-08-07, 05:01 PM

In SH3 as far as I know they will always detatch after 30 mins of non-contact. I could be wrong however. I've wondered about that myself though. At least twice in the last 3 patrols I've come across hunter killer groups (or at least I assume they're hunter killers) with 6 destroyers and frigates sailing about in the Bay of Biscay and the north of Spain. I'm guessing they simulate the Allied hunter killer groups that didn't have to worry about regaining the convoys and could hunt U-Boats to the limit of their endurance. Do they give up after 30 mins I wonder:hmm: I must try them out

danlisa · 06-08-07, 05:10 PM

They will stop hnting after 30mins of no contact, if they re-establish contact with you the counter will start again.

It has been known for DD's to actually loose contact with the convoy that they were protecting.

You can change this time limit & infact previous versions of SH3Cmdr (IIRC) had a time limit of 45mins. I just can't remember the correct file at the moment.

EDIT - Found it, in the Sim.cfg file the is an entry called AI detection and the default for GWX is 23mins. I think this is set to this time to stop the issue about escorts loosing contact with the convoy. So change this at your peril.

MarkShot · 06-08-07, 05:13 PM

Well, that is useful to know. In AOD, they seem to give up after an hour if they never ping you, but if they do successfully get you on active sonar, it could be another 2-3 hours before the last escort departs the area even if contact has been broken.

Foghladh_mhara · 06-08-07, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danlisa

EDIT - Found it, in the Sim.cfg file the is an entry called AI detection and the default for GWX is 23mins. I think this is set to this time to stop the issue about escorts loosing contact with the convoy. So change this at your peril.

Is this still the same for the warships unattached to merchants?

danlisa · 06-08-07, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foghladh_mhara

Quote:

Originally Posted by danlisa

EDIT - Found it, in the Sim.cfg file the is an entry called AI detection and the default for GWX is 23mins. I think this is set to this time to stop the issue about escorts loosing contact with the convoy. So change this at your peril.

Is this still the same for the warships unattached to merchants?

Yep, that is the overall AI detection value.

Kpt. Lehmann · 06-08-07, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkShot

In SH2/PA, escorts which were pulled out of formation from a convoy often never returned to the formation.

This problem can occur in SH3 as well, and is why the lost contact time is balanced the way it is in GWX... IIRC stock SH3 "lost contact" time is only 15 minutes.

Setting the lost contact time in SH3 too high... causes ASW assets to stay in place... disassociating them with the convoy. Therefore, if they are pounding your last known location... (when the lost contact time is set too high) ... you are free to head towards the horizon (where the convoy went off to) and have your way with it at your leisure.... the worse of two evils IMHO.

EDIT: To whom it may concern... the default GWX lost contact time in the Sim.cfg IS NOT 23 minutes... (spoiler warning: it is set at 30 minutes) I don't know where that number comes from as discussed above.

johan_d · 06-08-07, 05:58 PM

He didnt say when.. the year is important!

Kpt. Lehmann · 06-08-07, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johan_d

He didnt say when.. the year is important!

To a certain degree, yes... (plus or minus a percentage variable based on ASW crew quality) However, the premise of the quandary remains the same.

bigboywooly · 06-08-07, 07:03 PM

The other possibilty you have is to use the date folders in SH3commander and up the time as the war goes on

:hmm:

Or add a couple into the random folder so you dont know how long they will hunt for any given load

Kpt. Lehmann · 06-08-07, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

The other possibilty you have is to use the date folders in SH3commander and up the time as the war goes on

:hmm:

Or add a couple into the random folder so you dont know how long they will hunt for any given load

Thank God for SH3 Cmdr.

I just wish we could randomize more functions within SH3 itself to mask the lackluster AI further. <sigh>

Jimbuna · 06-09-07, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Or add a couple into the random folder so you dont know how long they will hunt for any given load

Now that would be an absolute Godsend

06-08-07, 03:59 PM	#1
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	Faking out the escorts? SH3 1.4b/GWX 1.03 Anyone try this technique? It's dusk and I am running on the surface and have been spotted by the escorts. So, I turned tail and brought two escorts with me giving chase. I am thinking to submerged long range so that when then arrive at the spot that I went down, they won't find me. Then, in the mean time I will put some distance between us. I would like to surface in the darkness and hopefully leave the escorts still searching for me while I sprint off after convoy minus two escorts. Reasonable or flawed logic? __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

06-08-07, 04:12 PM	#2
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	Well, so far so good, I have pulled 3 of 5 escorts out of position. If only there was a wolf pack out there tonight!!! __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

06-08-07, 04:44 PM	#3
Foghladh_mhara Commander Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kent Posts: 473 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	As far as I remember though the escorts will only hunt you for 30 mins of game time. If they haven't regained contact with you at that point they will return to station. What will you be able to achieve in that time and will you have made any distance from your dive point? __________________ The beauty of not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise without any of the stress that might normally precede such a venture

06-08-07, 04:51 PM	#4
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	You are right the wimps gave up quickly. Well, I have read that later in the war, escorts might detach themselves from the screen and loiter for an extended period of time. Also, this attempt was not totally without merit. In SH2/PA, escorts which were pulled out of formation from a convoy often never returned to the formation. Effectively, you would have stripped the convoy of a portion of its protection. Finally, if there was a wolf pack, this would have been a nice tactic in assisting the other boats to make their attack unmolested. Oh, well ... __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

06-08-07, 05:01 PM	#5
Foghladh_mhara Commander Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kent Posts: 473 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	In SH3 as far as I know they will always detatch after 30 mins of non-contact. I could be wrong however. I've wondered about that myself though. At least twice in the last 3 patrols I've come across hunter killer groups (or at least I assume they're hunter killers) with 6 destroyers and frigates sailing about in the Bay of Biscay and the north of Spain. I'm guessing they simulate the Allied hunter killer groups that didn't have to worry about regaining the convoys and could hunt U-Boats to the limit of their endurance. Do they give up after 30 mins I wonder:hmm: I must try them out __________________ The beauty of not planning is that failure comes as a complete surprise without any of the stress that might normally precede such a venture

06-08-07, 05:10 PM	#6
danlisa Navy Seal Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cornwall, UK Posts: 5,499 Downloads: 45 Uploads: 1	They will stop hnting after 30mins of no contact, if they re-establish contact with you the counter will start again. It has been known for DD's to actually loose contact with the convoy that they were protecting. You can change this time limit & infact previous versions of SH3Cmdr (IIRC) had a time limit of 45mins. I just can't remember the correct file at the moment. EDIT - Found it, in the Sim.cfg file the is an entry called AI detection and the default for GWX is 23mins. I think this is set to this time to stop the issue about escorts loosing contact with the convoy. So change this at your peril. __________________

06-08-07, 05:13 PM	#7
MarkShot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,134 Downloads: 93 Uploads: 0	Well, that is useful to know. In AOD, they seem to give up after an hour if they never ping you, but if they do successfully get you on active sonar, it could be another 2-3 hours before the last escort departs the area even if contact has been broken. __________________ War games, not wars! --- Only a small few profit from war (that should not stand)!

06-08-07, 05:58 PM	#11
johan_d Samurai Navy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 556 Downloads: 113 Uploads: 1	He didnt say when.. the year is important!

06-08-07, 07:03 PM	#13
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	The other possibilty you have is to use the date folders in SH3commander and up the time as the war goes on :hmm: Or add a couple into the random folder so you dont know how long they will hunt for any given load __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41