More surface attacks?

pocatellodave · 06-09-07, 09:15 PM

I have read a few books about Submarines,written by successful skippers,and from what I gather the percentage of surface attacks was a little higher than what we see with SH III and SH IV.I was wondering if any skippers...sim that is...have much luck trying a torpedo attack on the surface .I have managed a couple against unescorted ships,but I won't even attempt it against escorted ships.Seems I recall George Grider using radar to set up attack in South China Sea.Makes me wonder if either side had radar detecters.I'll let you more knowledgeable Submarine fans answer that one.
Pocatellodave

1480 · 06-10-07, 09:02 AM

Night surface attacks on a convoy, will have a better chance of success then day submerged ones (IMHHO). I try to keep most of my attacks this way. Because of my voyeuristic nature and I suk in math...

SteamWake · 06-11-07, 04:06 PM

I have not been "detected" through the use of radar. Wether or not its modeled in the game I dont know but I dont belive so.

But then again I dont leave it on all the time. I just use it for a snapshot now and then.

I have never set up a shot using radar only although I understand it can be done.

FAdmiral · 06-11-07, 06:46 PM

Nov. 1942, (no radar) I had a DD pass by me at night, clear sky, moderate
sea (whitecaps) at 2900 yds. with my sub bow on to him. He did not detect
me. I was surfaced using the TBT and after he passed, I tracked and fired
torpedos at the convoy he was leading. The convoy consisted of 6 merchants
with 3 DDs escorting them. After firing the torps while surfaced, I then dove
to 165 feet, just under thermal layer. I was never detected as I moved away.
I know the rough seas had alot to do with my staying on the surface undetected....

JIM

SteamWake · 06-11-07, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAdmiral

Nov. 1942, (no radar) I had a DD pass by me at night, clear sky, moderate
sea (whitecaps) at 2900 yds. with my sub bow on to him. He did not detect
me. I was surfaced using the TBT and after he passed, I tracked and fired
torpedos at the convoy he was leading. The convoy consisted of 6 merchants
with 3 DDs escorting them. After firing the torps while surfaced, I then dove
to 165 feet, just under thermal layer. I was never detected as I moved away.
I know the rough seas had alot to do with my staying on the surface undetected....

JIM

The key thing was "bow on" subs presented a very low profile at this aspect.

Good job sailor !

FAdmiral · 06-11-07, 07:15 PM

I am also fairly sure if the sea had been very calm or glassey, he would have
seen me and opened fire at or before 2900 yds. The game takes into account
many variables on the detection distance and this is almost too hard to test
as the weather and darkness of the night play a very big part....

JIM

GTHammer · 06-11-07, 08:19 PM

I saw an interesting show on the History Channel this afternoon that might have some bearing on this...Anyway the show talked about unusual weaponry the allies tried to impliment during WWII, and one section discussed the threat from German U-boats to allied shipping. The width of the Atlantic ocean combined with the limited range of airplanes at the time allowed the Germans to operate with little interference as long as they stayed so far off the coasts. The lack of planes almost certainly is related to ability of a sub to operate near the surface without detection.

On a side note...from 1941-1943 the Brits, Americans, and Canadians attempted to solve this problem by creating a floating "ice ship" or "ice island" that could be used to launch planes etc with proposed walls constructed of 40 feet of ice which would make it impervious to torpedo attack. They did extensive testing and were able to develop a composite ice(made with wood chips and other media) that was reportedly stronger than steel and could be milled into specific shapes. The whole thing eventually got scrubbed because as the war progressed they discovered creating and maintaining such a massive ice chunk was impractical and air technology was advancing and thus promising to end range issues.

pocatellodave · 06-11-07, 09:27 PM

I watched that program,and I found it very interesting.Ice aircraft carriers,Howard Hugh's gigantic aeroplane.My the things they did come up with.
Pocatellodave

06-09-07, 09:15 PM	#1
pocatellodave Engineer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pocatello,ID Posts: 203 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	More surface attacks? I have read a few books about Submarines,written by successful skippers,and from what I gather the percentage of surface attacks was a little higher than what we see with SH III and SH IV.I was wondering if any skippers...sim that is...have much luck trying a torpedo attack on the surface .I have managed a couple against unescorted ships,but I won't even attempt it against escorted ships.Seems I recall George Grider using radar to set up attack in South China Sea.Makes me wonder if either side had radar detecters.I'll let you more knowledgeable Submarine fans answer that one. Pocatellodave

06-11-07, 06:46 PM	#4
FAdmiral Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 1,079 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Nov. 1942, (no radar) I had a DD pass by me at night, clear sky, moderate sea (whitecaps) at 2900 yds. with my sub bow on to him. He did not detect me. I was surfaced using the TBT and after he passed, I tracked and fired torpedos at the convoy he was leading. The convoy consisted of 6 merchants with 3 DDs escorting them. After firing the torps while surfaced, I then dove to 165 feet, just under thermal layer. I was never detected as I moved away. I know the rough seas had alot to do with my staying on the surface undetected.... JIM __________________ If you\'re not taking losses, you\'re not doing enough. RAdm. Kelly Turner, USN ********************************** www.fairtax.org

06-11-07, 07:15 PM	#6
FAdmiral Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 1,079 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I am also fairly sure if the sea had been very calm or glassey, he would have seen me and opened fire at or before 2900 yds. The game takes into account many variables on the detection distance and this is almost too hard to test as the weather and darkness of the night play a very big part.... JIM __________________ If you\'re not taking losses, you\'re not doing enough. RAdm. Kelly Turner, USN ********************************** www.fairtax.org

06-11-07, 08:19 PM	#7
GTHammer Machinist's Mate Join Date: May 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 127 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I saw an interesting show on the History Channel this afternoon that might have some bearing on this...Anyway the show talked about unusual weaponry the allies tried to impliment during WWII, and one section discussed the threat from German U-boats to allied shipping. The width of the Atlantic ocean combined with the limited range of airplanes at the time allowed the Germans to operate with little interference as long as they stayed so far off the coasts. The lack of planes almost certainly is related to ability of a sub to operate near the surface without detection. On a side note...from 1941-1943 the Brits, Americans, and Canadians attempted to solve this problem by creating a floating "ice ship" or "ice island" that could be used to launch planes etc with proposed walls constructed of 40 feet of ice which would make it impervious to torpedo attack. They did extensive testing and were able to develop a composite ice(made with wood chips and other media) that was reportedly stronger than steel and could be milled into specific shapes. The whole thing eventually got scrubbed because as the war progressed they discovered creating and maintaining such a massive ice chunk was impractical and air technology was advancing and thus promising to end range issues. __________________ GT USS Hammer

06-10-07, 09:02 AM	#2
1480 Lead Slinger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chitcago, Illinoise Posts: 1,442 Downloads: 74 Uploads: 0	Night surface attacks on a convoy, will have a better chance of success then day submerged ones (IMHHO). I try to keep most of my attacks this way. Because of my voyeuristic nature and I suk in math...

06-11-07, 04:06 PM	#3
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I have not been "detected" through the use of radar. Wether or not its modeled in the game I dont know but I dont belive so. But then again I dont leave it on all the time. I just use it for a snapshot now and then. I have never set up a shot using radar only although I understand it can be done.

06-11-07, 09:27 PM	#8
pocatellodave Engineer Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pocatello,ID Posts: 203 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	I watched that program,and I found it very interesting.Ice aircraft carriers,Howard Hugh's gigantic aeroplane.My the things they did come up with. Pocatellodave