Possible TDC bug (auto and manual)

[gnirtS]

Been playing all night with various custom missions to look at the TDC and i've found whats either a bug or FADE gone wrong (subtle bug that messes things up without people really noticing!)

Firstly in auto TDC it appears to underestimate the speed of a target by just under 1kt. This means your torpedo shots are going to go aft of where you aim.

Just an example, a **** passing at 90 degrees to you at 1000 yards doing 12 knots the torpedos hit about 3.5 degrees aft of where you're aiming. Ie you aim for the very bow you'll hit somewhere in the first 1/3. Use auto/lock and it'll hit rear 1/3. Aim for the engines/keel and you'll miss.

Only solutions ive found are to either use a spread offset or aim ahead of where you want to hit. Problem with this method is just how far you need to aim varies with targets speed, course, AOB, your torpedo speed and so on.

You can test this yourself by doing the torpedo attack tutorial, aim for a clear obvious part of the target like the flag pole then watch where it hits. Stationary targets should hit spot on, the faster a targer goes the further aft you'll hit.


Now for an issue ive found with manual TDC.

Unless im mistaken the TDC will ALWAYS fire at the centre of the ship regardless of where on it your scope is pointed. It seems the bearing isnt automatically sent to the TDC and it just uses the centre bearing. If there is a MARK button, i cant find it.
The only work around ive found is to combine the torpedo spread dial with the attack map and guesstimate how much you need to offset to hit left/right of centre. Its hardly an exact science though.


Creating a custom mission with a group of 5 boats all heading on a straight line and course you can play with/verify both the above.


Is anyone else experiencing either of these symptoms? Either their bugs, im doing something wrong or much talked about FADE has decided it hates me, activated and causing subtle alterations in my game.

The problem at the moment is its impossible to tell!

[Der Teddy Bar]

I presume that you have opened the torpedo door before firing the torpedo?

Also your scope should not continually update the TDC as that is not how it worked in WWII.

[gnirtS]

Yep doors open, instant fire.

Scope not updating TDC is fair enough but it then needs a "MARK" button otherwise its impossible to aim at anything other than the centre of the ship.

Auto TDC is definatley out here by just under a knot and manual i have no way of targetting other parts of a ship unless i use the spread offset dial.

[submariner]

Yes, you are correct. I used manual targeting on SH3 and at least the Gyro Angle was displayed at the scope screen ...... but in SH4 the gyro is really hard to read with any precision ..... and since the scope only seems to 'mark' a ship when locked .... there seems to be a disconnect between scope and gyro angle.

I was very good at SH3 manual targeting, but on SH4 I consistently miss aft .... just as you describe.

I'm very dissapointed with implementation of the tdc & gyro in SH4 ..... once you had the gyro set in SH3 you could easily fire multiple quick shots at a convoy by point and shoot ...... I can't do this in SH4 unless I fiddle with the 'lock' or red button or tube select between shots ?

[gnirtS]

If thats true then the only way to target different parts of a ship in manual will be by using the spread button - cant imagine thats through design.

Add that to faulty TDC speed measuring in auto mode and targeting is nowhere near as nice as SH3.

[joea]

Have you guys considered that the TDC and aiming procedure were different in the USN and Kriegsmarine?

[gnirtS]

Yes.

But the auto bug is nothing to do with that. Its a software error.

The lack of manual aiming change is due to the lack of any sort of mark button which they did have.

Neither of these problems are systems being misunderstood - they both look like software limitations in the game.

[NefariousKoel]

I've noticed on both manual and automatic that a LOT of my shots are missing a ways aft. Perhaps gnirts has hit on something here. Oh, and I open my tube door well before firing.

[gnirtS]

Do what i did, create some custom missions.

In the first have a stationary ship at 1000yds and test.

Second mission have ships passing 90 degrees to your path closest 1000 yards and have the ships doing 5kts and try it.

Then alter that mission so theyre doing 10kts, retry, then 15kts, retry and so on.

Stationary it hits dead on, the others its missing aft.

(Auto TDC anyway, speed entry for manual TDC works fine but can only target middle of ships. In manual you can verify your solution by using the attack map and check it matches actual movement. Not possible in auto though).

[Ducimus]

Only thing i've been able to discern so far, is the torpedo tube doors take forever to open. You issue the command, but it doesnt acutally happen for a few long agonizing seconds later. Not a big deal with your first shot, but a 2nd or 3rd shot and it becomes an issue. My assumption is crew effiecency and management has a role in this.

Anyway, my solution for this delay that has worked for me, has been using the spread angle. If the target is going from right to left, ill set the spread angle about 4 or 5 degrees left (assuming im in close, less degrees if further out) to compensate for the delay. Seems to work fine. I have to admit though, this TDC is going to take ALOT of getting used to, and it does feel like it might have a quirk or two in it somewhere, but i can't quite put my finger on it.

edit:
Also keep in mind its ENTIRELY possible there's an old bug from SH3 that has carried over into SH4. It deals with the torpedo speed selection switch and gyro angle. When changing from steam to electrics (or vice versa), the torpedo speed didnt acutally update even though the selector switch would change to reflect the torpedo being used. You had to click on the speed switch anyway or the gyro woudn't update.

[gnirtS]

I just open the door of my tube some 30 seconds before taking shot. The misjudged TDC screw up to need spread, last thing i need is to add another factor to it.

This definately isnt an issue with torp speed miscalculated, if that was the case the torpedos would miss by FAR more than they actually are for me.

[heartc]

All of you are wrong. The bearing of the scope/TBT is transmitted the moment you transmit the other data, so you CAN aim with the sight. Don't "lock" the target, that's BS anyway. True, iRL there was a specific "Mark" button for bearing updates, and the lack of one in-game is anoying, but the above is a work-around.

(Now, someone reported you would need to re-enter all three datas for the bearing to update, but I surely had the impression it's enough to re-enter ("send") one information again, like speed for example - and I think I'm right. Anything else wouldn't make sense)

[ReM]

Originally Posted by NefariousKoel

I've noticed on both manual and automatic that a LOT of my shots are missing a ways aft. Perhaps gnirts has hit on something here. Oh, and I open my tube door well before firing.

Confirmed....always aft.

[RedHammer]

I have the same problem with SH3 in the torpedo training mission there, torpedoes go waaaaaaaaaay behind and misses by several hundred metres.
And when I take a look at the TDC in the attack map, I find out, despite of very good measures, that the torpedoes are aimed waay back :S

Try this in Attack map in SH4, get a perfect solution, then take a look at your attack map, if you find the torpedo to hit a little too far behind, use the spread feature to put it a little more ahead. Hence, you may hit the ship exactly where you want to. Works for me on stationary targets. Note: I haven`t tried this on moving targets as I cannot get a good speed solution by obvious reasons.


S! to all

Your Friend in the Pacific

RH

[gnirtS]

Originally Posted by heartc

(Now, someone reported you would need to re-enter all three datas for the bearing to update, but I surely had the impression it's enough to re-enter ("send") one information again, like speed for example - and I think I'm right. Anything else wouldn't make sense)

So point at right part of ship, then enter speed or something into TDC again and fire immediately should send new bearing?

Going to test this now.