Patch 1.3

pythos · 05-04-07, 10:16 AM

If we don't get a patch 1.3, and wonder why, all we need to do is look at the flack given to the Devs by most on this and other forums, and let's not forget that wonderful bit of satire called "Das Boot does SH4". If I were some sap that had not only some suit breathing over my neck to make the patches and other stuff for the game, but also got nothing but flack from my so called supporters I'd tell all involved to shove a 1/72 scale Gato up their nether regions, and go to hell.

When the patch came out I mostly saw complaints, and more complaints. I myself got called a fan boy for suggesting for members here to take it easy when complaining. The average poster here seems to have degraded, while the true kaleuns/skippers are out on virtual seas enjoying these games, that though buggy, are awsome in so many respects.

So if we don't get the patch, in my humble opinion we deserve it.

For the devs, I hope you do put out a patch taking care of the outstanding issues this promising sim has.

FIREWALL · 05-04-07, 10:20 AM

Just a normal affliction called : Nerdus Impatienceus

rduffy34 · 05-04-07, 10:26 AM

I agree with you 100% It's always about whats wrong and never whats right.

I think that implies about my boss too!

7Enigma · 05-04-07, 10:31 AM

If we don't get a patch it has nothing to do with this, or any other forum and its members. It only has to do with money and commitment to a finished product.

Trying to pawn off blame away from the developer's and/or distributor's failure to release a stable product is rediculous.

You release a game that has issues only seen on certain hardware/software combinations is completely acceptable and almost impossible to avoid in today's wide range of configurations. These are things like driver issues and accessory incompatibilites.

You release a game that from day one and still today after 2 patches has many broken aspects (radar, chrono, save issues) and you get no sympathy from me and many other gamers. That's just disrespectful.

Sailor Steve · 05-04-07, 10:35 AM

I agree up to a point. Legitimate complaints are always welcome, especially if that's the only way to point out flaws and attempt to get them fixed. That said, I've been called a few names myself for telling the complainers what I'm about to say here: there are already several good threads on "What I like about SH4", and many people have started many threads to say what was said here.

I want only the best for SH4, but I thought Das Boot Does SH4 was hilarious.

Just trying to be fair to both sides.

FIREWALL · 05-04-07, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

Just a normal affliction called : Nerdus Impatienceus

Bump

Joe S · 05-04-07, 01:41 PM

While the "true skippers" are out sinking ships.....The rest of "US" me included, is sitting there in front of a windows screen waiting to reload the game after a crash. If I could run a missioin without crashes I would be doing it. I am not complaining about any individual on the DEv team, I assume they are doing their job and doing a good job. I have a complaint about a company who sold me a half finished product and got full price for it. Not only is it only half finished but it many ways it is a step backwards from the state of the art in SHI and SHIII. If I ever get to the point where I can run the program I would like to enjoy as you apparently are. Joe S

TDK1044 · 05-04-07, 01:56 PM

People's experiences are very varied regarding CTDs with SH4. I've been playing 40 plus hours now with zero crashes to desktop. I guess it's a mix of bugs, mods, settings and compatibility.

sean705 · 05-04-07, 02:00 PM

I can say from experience that this is becoming the norm in the software industry nowadays. I work for a software company, on the dev side of the house and I can't tell you how many companies will force out a piece of software, just to turn a quick buck. Management types seem to think that, as long as you KNOW what bugs the software has, it's ok to release it, with the understanding that the bugs will be fixed at a later date (but ifixing those bugs becomes less and less of a priority after the cash is in their pockets).
As we all know (being paying customers and all) this is not a good practice. And I can tell you, this is a very sore point with 99% of the developers that I have worked with. I've seen countless software releases that have only been allowed to go through two or three rounds of full Q/A testing and then shipped.
So, what I'm saying is, don't necessarily point the finger at the game developers, more often than not, this blame is shouldered by the upper management of the company.

Just my two cents

7Enigma · 05-04-07, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDK1044

People's experiences are very varied regarding CTDs with SH4. I've been playing 40 plus hours now with zero crashes to desktop. I guess it's a mix of bugs, mods, settings and compatibility.

To the dev's credit v1.2 has all but eliminated my frequent CTD's. Just makes me think v1.2 should have been v0.997 (fix my damn radar!)

Calbeck · 05-04-07, 02:54 PM

I'll say this as a working PC tech (can't say who with, obviously), as well as someone who's been tweaking his PCs for gaming since 1988.

SH4 IS a very good game. It has its issues in terms of gameplay, but it remains THE best out-of-the-box sub game I've ever played. SH3 is, currently, debatably superior, but only because of the efforts of dozens of modders working for years to improve on what was already a great game. The same will be true here as SH4 catches up in the modding zone.

As to CTDs, here's a tip: RAMP YOUR RAM. Especially if you're running Vista, and VERY especially if you have a 256M or heftier video card.

Why? Because many video cards currently "pre-position" RAM addresses in expectation of heavy loads, and that's fine --- IF you have the RAM to spare, which many folks don't. This function speeds video processing, but cuts the rest of the system off from using that RAM. Add the fact that Vista requires 1Gig MINIMUM to run worth a damn, and you can rest assured that you're going to have CTDs and bluescreens relating to memory should you try to run SH4 on a high-end card using Vista on 1G.

I had exactly this issue and it drove me crazy trying to troubleshoot and ubertweak my own machine for two weeks before I realized that the AGP aperature was forcing Windows to reserve 512M! Note that PCI-X cards are not as prone to this, because it becomes a software issue and isn't hardwired into the card. Reducing the AGP aperature in BIOS and ramping up to 2Gigs RAM has resulted in a FAR more stable machine --- and I can now run SH4 with all the visual goodies, whereas I got low framerates and stuttering trying to do so before.

This is also probably the cheapest fix for most of you out there --- my extra gig cost slightly more than $100, for a good pair of Corsair 512s.

Bane · 05-04-07, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calbeck

I had exactly this issue and it drove me crazy trying to troubleshoot and ubertweak my own machine for two weeks before I realized that the AGP aperature was forcing Windows to reserve 512M of space!

What's a good rule of thumb for setting the AGP aperture in your opinion? I have a 512MB card, 2GB of RAM and XP.

DragonRR1 · 05-04-07, 03:02 PM

Good ariticle here Bane:

http://www.tweak3d.net/joomla/featur...-size-examined

Albeit a bit old! - 256mb is the norm.

Calbeck · 05-04-07, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calbeck

I had exactly this issue and it drove me crazy trying to troubleshoot and ubertweak my own machine for two weeks before I realized that the AGP aperature was forcing Windows to reserve 512M of space!

What's a good rule of thumb for setting the AGP aperture in your opinion? I have a 512MB card, 2GB of RAM and XP.

At minimum, it should be the same size as the card, and preferably twice that. With 2G and XP, you might try a 1G aperature and scale back if you get bluescreens, but assuming the rest of the box is to basic specs you should be good.

As to 256M being "the norm", that was true of the benchmarks DragonRR1 referred to...which were conducted in 2002 using 32M and 64M cards. They didn't test beyond 256M at the time because no card on the market could be expected to use that much RAM under any but the most extreme circumstances. With 256M and 512M cards now being the norm, methinks it's time someone did a new round of benchmarking...

subfan1 · 05-04-07, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7Enigma

If we don't get a patch it has nothing to do with this, or any other forum and its members. It only has to do with money and commitment to a finished product.

Trying to pawn off blame away from the developer's and/or distributor's failure to release a stable product is rediculous.

You release a game that has issues only seen on certain hardware/software combinations is completely acceptable and almost impossible to avoid in today's wide range of configurations. These are things like driver issues and accessory incompatibilites.

You release a game that from day one and still today after 2 patches has many broken aspects (radar, chrono, save issues) and you get no sympathy from me and many other gamers. That's just disrespectful.

Agreed, I paid my money (I'm one of the 3000 deluxe versions) I expect the product working if it's not too much trouble.

People have been brainwashed/conditioned

by the likes of Microsoft to think it's ok to release incomplete products onto the market and expect the paying public to act as their user acceptance testing! In Microsoft's case they can potentially cost business's money and frustration, luckily this is only a game.

As regards the "certain hardware/software", issue, that's why they provide a recommended system config. Lots of people have the exact requirements but still have the radar etc problems. Lets face it, it's buggy.

Finally the 2 patches and still not fixed comment. This game is not a mindless blast anything that moves shoot em up. It's played by people who appreciate precision and things like hydrophones not working at periscope depth is extreemly annoying. I like to get into position in realtime, so while it takes time to position yourself for a perfect shot, to me it's worth it in the payoff. To get all the information I need for "the perfect shot", I have to make my sub act like a dolphin breeching for air continually going from 14 to 20 feet. With that kind of farcical situation I'm supprised the Japs aren't rolling around on deck laughting at me.

05-04-07, 10:16 AM	#1
pythos Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 834 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	Patch 1.3 If we don't get a patch 1.3, and wonder why, all we need to do is look at the flack given to the Devs by most on this and other forums, and let's not forget that wonderful bit of satire called "Das Boot does SH4". If I were some sap that had not only some suit breathing over my neck to make the patches and other stuff for the game, but also got nothing but flack from my so called supporters I'd tell all involved to shove a 1/72 scale Gato up their nether regions, and go to hell. When the patch came out I mostly saw complaints, and more complaints. I myself got called a fan boy for suggesting for members here to take it easy when complaining. The average poster here seems to have degraded, while the true kaleuns/skippers are out on virtual seas enjoying these games, that though buggy, are awsome in so many respects. So if we don't get the patch, in my humble opinion we deserve it. For the devs, I hope you do put out a patch taking care of the outstanding issues this promising sim has.

05-04-07, 10:20 AM	#2
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	Just a normal affliction called : Nerdus Impatienceus __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ???

05-04-07, 10:26 AM	#3
rduffy34 Watch Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 16 Downloads: 149 Uploads: 0	Yup I agree with you 100% It's always about whats wrong and never whats right. I think that implies about my boss too!

05-04-07, 10:35 AM	#5
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I agree up to a point. Legitimate complaints are always welcome, especially if that's the only way to point out flaws and attempt to get them fixed. That said, I've been called a few names myself for telling the complainers what I'm about to say here: there are already several good threads on "What I like about SH4", and many people have started many threads to say what was said here. I want only the best for SH4, but I thought Das Boot Does SH4 was hilarious. Just trying to be fair to both sides. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

05-04-07, 02:54 PM	#11
Calbeck Sailor man Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Phoenix, Land of AZ Posts: 49 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	I'll say this as a working PC tech (can't say who with, obviously), as well as someone who's been tweaking his PCs for gaming since 1988. SH4 IS a very good game. It has its issues in terms of gameplay, but it remains THE best out-of-the-box sub game I've ever played. SH3 is, currently, debatably superior, but only because of the efforts of dozens of modders working for years to improve on what was already a great game. The same will be true here as SH4 catches up in the modding zone. As to CTDs, here's a tip: RAMP YOUR RAM. Especially if you're running Vista, and VERY especially if you have a 256M or heftier video card. Why? Because many video cards currently "pre-position" RAM addresses in expectation of heavy loads, and that's fine --- IF you have the RAM to spare, which many folks don't. This function speeds video processing, but cuts the rest of the system off from using that RAM. Add the fact that Vista requires 1Gig MINIMUM to run worth a damn, and you can rest assured that you're going to have CTDs and bluescreens relating to memory should you try to run SH4 on a high-end card using Vista on 1G. I had exactly this issue and it drove me crazy trying to troubleshoot and ubertweak my own machine for two weeks before I realized that the AGP aperature was forcing Windows to reserve 512M! Note that PCI-X cards are not as prone to this, because it becomes a software issue and isn't hardwired into the card. Reducing the AGP aperature in BIOS and ramping up to 2Gigs RAM has resulted in a FAR more stable machine --- and I can now run SH4 with all the visual goodies, whereas I got low framerates and stuttering trying to do so before. This is also probably the cheapest fix for most of you out there --- my extra gig cost slightly more than $100, for a good pair of Corsair 512s. __________________ "I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of fanboys suddenly cried out in joy and won't shut the frak up." --- PsyOps

05-04-07, 10:31 AM	#4
7Enigma Helmsman Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 103 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	If we don't get a patch it has nothing to do with this, or any other forum and its members. It only has to do with money and commitment to a finished product. Trying to pawn off blame away from the developer's and/or distributor's failure to release a stable product is rediculous. You release a game that has issues only seen on certain hardware/software combinations is completely acceptable and almost impossible to avoid in today's wide range of configurations. These are things like driver issues and accessory incompatibilites. You release a game that from day one and still today after 2 patches has many broken aspects (radar, chrono, save issues) and you get no sympathy from me and many other gamers. That's just disrespectful.

05-04-07, 01:41 PM	#7
Joe S XO Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 409 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 0	While the "true skippers" are out sinking ships.....The rest of "US" me included, is sitting there in front of a windows screen waiting to reload the game after a crash. If I could run a missioin without crashes I would be doing it. I am not complaining about any individual on the DEv team, I assume they are doing their job and doing a good job. I have a complaint about a company who sold me a half finished product and got full price for it. Not only is it only half finished but it many ways it is a step backwards from the state of the art in SHI and SHIII. If I ever get to the point where I can run the program I would like to enjoy as you apparently are. Joe S

05-04-07, 01:56 PM	#8
TDK1044 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 2,674 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	People's experiences are very varied regarding CTDs with SH4. I've been playing 40 plus hours now with zero crashes to desktop. I guess it's a mix of bugs, mods, settings and compatibility.

05-04-07, 02:00 PM	#9
sean705 Watch Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 26 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I can say from experience that this is becoming the norm in the software industry nowadays. I work for a software company, on the dev side of the house and I can't tell you how many companies will force out a piece of software, just to turn a quick buck. Management types seem to think that, as long as you KNOW what bugs the software has, it's ok to release it, with the understanding that the bugs will be fixed at a later date (but ifixing those bugs becomes less and less of a priority after the cash is in their pockets). As we all know (being paying customers and all) this is not a good practice. And I can tell you, this is a very sore point with 99% of the developers that I have worked with. I've seen countless software releases that have only been allowed to go through two or three rounds of full Q/A testing and then shipped. So, what I'm saying is, don't necessarily point the finger at the game developers, more often than not, this blame is shouldered by the upper management of the company. Just my two cents

05-04-07, 03:02 PM	#13
DragonRR1 Officer Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: UK Posts: 246 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Good ariticle here Bane: http://www.tweak3d.net/joomla/featur...-size-examined Albeit a bit old! - 256mb is the norm.