Using TDC in Convoy Attacks

Driscol · 05-08-07, 07:54 AM

How are mixed convoys (eg. troop ships, tankers, large and small freighters)attacked using manual targeting, the TDC and the recognition manual? Or do people use another method?

I find the time required to open the manual, check off a new target, reset the TDC parameters and then fire a second salvo to be way too long. More often than not I just try to bring my stern tubes to bear on something and hope for a chance hit. When I read about accounts like the Tango attack (where O'kane fired off twenty-odd torpedos) I have to believe there is a better way. Or is it just an experienced skipper and point and shoot attacking?

SteamWake · 05-08-07, 08:02 AM

Yes it can be challanging.

bobo · 05-08-07, 08:51 AM

Do you mean a second salvo from remaining forward tubes or a second salvo from stern tubes? I set everything up way in advance.

If I'm in a good position in front of the convoy I usually have plenty of time to empty all my forward tubes. The firtst thing I do is make my plots on the nav map so I can get an accurate course and speed for the convoy. I plot the course lines for each column. I choose the 2 most high profile targets (or 3 depending on size/armor) and mark a spot on their respective course lines ahead of their current position and a bit to the left or right of mine so I can get a near-90 torp hit. Of course everything is setup to fire at the furthest target first so I can get both ships at roughly the same time. With good plots, and knowing where the ships will be when I fire gives me all the data points I need for a solution. It's just a matter of plugging it in and launching fish. Doesn't take that much time to do that really.

Now if your talking about using the stern tubes as an additional salvo on the remaining shipping thats a different story. I don't use them for that purpose until I have no more forward torps. In that case I'm usually at short range where more accurate data isn't as important. My primary use for stern tubes is to mop up the wounded

mookiemookie · 05-08-07, 09:53 AM

One tidbit I'd like to add....usually the hardest part of calculating a manual solution is getting the speed information. Once you have that for one of the ships in the convoy, you have it for all of them.

It just becomes a matter of selecting and identifying your targets, then all you really need to do to jump from one to the other is to take a stadimeter reading and get an AOB. You can do both fairly quickly.

Crow · 05-08-07, 09:59 AM

yeah and it s usefull that most of the time when a ship is struck the dumbasses go to a complete stop : speed errrrr .......zero , check

Driscol · 05-08-07, 02:14 PM

It sounds like I'm doing the simlilar things to everyone else. However, if I try to set up "in advance" on diferent types of targets, the range and AOB data I've fed into the TDC seems to be lost when I switch ships in the recogiton manual. If I wait to set up the second shot, so that I don't lose the first solution, I've got to re-open the manual and flip through page after page until I find the correct one and then re-input the data.

I've been experimenting with simply seting up on the first target and then switching to point and shoot for subsequent targets. By simply using the salvo spread offset dial, in conjunction with the attack map, I can get all tubes emptied at different targets in less time than the first torpedo takes to run its course.

mookiemookie · 05-08-07, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driscol

It sounds like I'm doing the simlilar things to everyone else. However, if I try to set up "in advance" on diferent types of targets, the range and AOB data I've fed into the TDC seems to be lost when I switch ships in the recogiton manual. If I wait to set up the second shot, so that I don't lose the first solution, I've got to re-open the manual and flip through page after page until I find the correct one and then re-input the data.

This is true, but the ship ID and speed is sticky. All you have to do is take a stadimeter reading and come up with an AOB when you come back to them. Don't waste time setting these up on ships you won't be immediately shooting at.

bobo · 05-08-07, 02:56 PM

what mookie said, but if you lose visual by dropping the scope then you do have to re-id the vessel. If you mark a designated location on the map where the ship you will attack is gonna be, and you are stationary, then you can figure the distance/AOB ahead of time so those operations go faster when you input them. So naturally a second ship would be done at a location mark closer than the first to your sub but just far enough along it's track that you give yourself time to fire on the first vessel and input data for the second with maybe a little extra time up front to try and get hits on both at roughly the same time. Practice practice practice

joea · 05-08-07, 03:00 PM

Would help if we could set up an "Vessel ID" key like in SHIII so we could have the WO identify the ship without flipping through the darn manual every time!!

AVGWarhawk · 05-08-07, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driscol

It sounds like I'm doing the simlilar things to everyone else. However, if I try to set up "in advance" on diferent types of targets, the range and AOB data I've fed into the TDC seems to be lost when I switch ships in the recogiton manual. If I wait to set up the second shot, so that I don't lose the first solution, I've got to re-open the manual and flip through page after page until I find the correct one and then re-input the data.

I've been experimenting with simply seting up on the first target and then switching to point and shoot for subsequent targets. By simply using the salvo spread offset dial, in conjunction with the attack map, I can get all tubes emptied at different targets in less time than the first torpedo takes to run its course.

To be honest, I ID one ship and that is all. The rest I just use the stadimeter, adjust AOB and speed adjustment if needed. Reason being I'm so close (1500 feet or less) that getting the range is really immaterial at this range. The tricky part is judging the speed correctly. Once one torp hits the convoy slows a knot or two or totally stops. At any rate, if you are attacking at 90 degrees and your torp misses you intended target, you can only hope it hits another vessel in the columns behind the original target....they usually do. To me, if you get 3-4 sunk in a convoy you have done well.

I'll never forget in SH3, I sent out a torp that missed every vessel except the DD way over on the other side of the convoy....I did not see it was even there. I just hear sonar say torpedo impact and an tiny explosion way off in the distance. BONUS TIME on that deal

AVGWarhawk · 05-08-07, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joea

Would help if we could set up an "Vessel ID" key like in SHIII so we could have the WO identify the ship without flipping through the darn manual every time!!

Did that come with WO assist option in SH3? I love WO assist....just felt right.

Nightmare · 05-08-07, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joea

Would help if we could set up an "Vessel ID" key like in SHIII so we could have the WO identify the ship without flipping through the darn manual every time!!

There is a quick modification to a cfg file that will identify a target for you. I'm at work right now, but I originally read about it on here (I'm sure a search can dig it up for you quickly). The only issue with this method is it doesn't set the mast head height on the stadimeter.

Just thinking off the top of my head; if you identify your two or three targets ahead of time, just write down their masthead height. Get everything setup on Target 1 and fire. Bring the scope over to Target 2, reset PK and manually enter masthead height and setup solution. Rinse repeat.

EDIT: Found the post by "Torcher" on what to edit here

05-08-07, 07:54 AM	#1
Driscol Watch Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 16 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Using TDC in Convoy Attacks How are mixed convoys (eg. troop ships, tankers, large and small freighters)attacked using manual targeting, the TDC and the recognition manual? Or do people use another method? I find the time required to open the manual, check off a new target, reset the TDC parameters and then fire a second salvo to be way too long. More often than not I just try to bring my stern tubes to bear on something and hope for a chance hit. When I read about accounts like the Tango attack (where O'kane fired off twenty-odd torpedos) I have to believe there is a better way. Or is it just an experienced skipper and point and shoot attacking?

05-08-07, 08:51 AM	#3
bobo Bosun Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 64 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Do you mean a second salvo from remaining forward tubes or a second salvo from stern tubes? I set everything up way in advance. If I'm in a good position in front of the convoy I usually have plenty of time to empty all my forward tubes. The firtst thing I do is make my plots on the nav map so I can get an accurate course and speed for the convoy. I plot the course lines for each column. I choose the 2 most high profile targets (or 3 depending on size/armor) and mark a spot on their respective course lines ahead of their current position and a bit to the left or right of mine so I can get a near-90 torp hit. Of course everything is setup to fire at the furthest target first so I can get both ships at roughly the same time. With good plots, and knowing where the ships will be when I fire gives me all the data points I need for a solution. It's just a matter of plugging it in and launching fish. Doesn't take that much time to do that really. Now if your talking about using the stern tubes as an additional salvo on the remaining shipping thats a different story. I don't use them for that purpose until I have no more forward torps. In that case I'm usually at short range where more accurate data isn't as important. My primary use for stern tubes is to mop up the wounded __________________ System Specs: HP xw8400 workstation Vista Enterprise 64bit 2x 3.00GHz dual core Xeon 6GB RAM Primary drive 4x 146GB 10k SAS Raid 0 Backup drive 2x 500GB SATA Raid 1 8800GTS Superclocked 320MB SBAudigy with 5.1 speaker setup HP 24inch Widescreen LCD

05-08-07, 09:53 AM	#4
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	One tidbit I'd like to add....usually the hardest part of calculating a manual solution is getting the speed information. Once you have that for one of the ships in the convoy, you have it for all of them. It just becomes a matter of selecting and identifying your targets, then all you really need to do to jump from one to the other is to take a stadimeter reading and get an AOB. You can do both fairly quickly. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

05-08-07, 09:59 AM	#5
Crow Tonnage Leader Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 87 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	yeah and it s usefull that most of the time when a ship is struck the dumbasses go to a complete stop : speed errrrr .......zero , check __________________

05-08-07, 02:56 PM	#8
bobo Bosun Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 64 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	what mookie said, but if you lose visual by dropping the scope then you do have to re-id the vessel. If you mark a designated location on the map where the ship you will attack is gonna be, and you are stationary, then you can figure the distance/AOB ahead of time so those operations go faster when you input them. So naturally a second ship would be done at a location mark closer than the first to your sub but just far enough along it's track that you give yourself time to fire on the first vessel and input data for the second with maybe a little extra time up front to try and get hits on both at roughly the same time. Practice practice practice __________________ System Specs: HP xw8400 workstation Vista Enterprise 64bit 2x 3.00GHz dual core Xeon 6GB RAM Primary drive 4x 146GB 10k SAS Raid 0 Backup drive 2x 500GB SATA Raid 1 8800GTS Superclocked 320MB SBAudigy with 5.1 speaker setup HP 24inch Widescreen LCD

05-08-07, 08:02 AM	#2
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Yes it can be challanging.

05-08-07, 02:14 PM	#6
Driscol Watch Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 16 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	It sounds like I'm doing the simlilar things to everyone else. However, if I try to set up "in advance" on diferent types of targets, the range and AOB data I've fed into the TDC seems to be lost when I switch ships in the recogiton manual. If I wait to set up the second shot, so that I don't lose the first solution, I've got to re-open the manual and flip through page after page until I find the correct one and then re-input the data. I've been experimenting with simply seting up on the first target and then switching to point and shoot for subsequent targets. By simply using the salvo spread offset dial, in conjunction with the attack map, I can get all tubes emptied at different targets in less time than the first torpedo takes to run its course.

05-08-07, 03:00 PM	#9
joea Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: At periscope depth in Lake Geneva Posts: 3,512 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Would help if we could set up an "Vessel ID" key like in SHIII so we could have the WO identify the ship without flipping through the darn manual every time!!