im not happy with AI

WernerSobe · 04-17-07, 05:20 PM

I dont like the AI.

Merchants stop when being attacked and never try to evade. In real they would go max speed and change course as often as possible. All enemy ships seem to be blind. I can surface 4000 yards away from the escort ships and attack the convoi with the deckgun without them paying attention.

I know from books that destroyers have often tracked torpedo tracks to find the subs so the captains were forced to dive deep before their torpedos arrived. In Sh4 i dont have to worry about that, i can even let my perescope up all the time at no risk at all.

Theyre also deaf. Or seem not to use their accustic sensors. I can go ahead flank 500 yards next to a destroyer and they dont notice me.

Maybe there are bugs involved but if not, thats way to easy and not realistic.

mookiemookie · 04-17-07, 05:43 PM

This is my biggest gripe as well, and something I hope they tune in patch 1.3

Ducimus · 04-17-07, 05:54 PM

Getting the AI to respond to its sensors can, and has been modded. (as im sure some users of my mod pack prior to 1.2 can attest to

)

What bugs me is certain hardcoded behaviors. Merchants stopping for one. What REALLY bugs me is convoys will slow down to the speed of the lowest ship in the convoy. If you damage one ,and hes doing 1-2 kts, he wont become a straggler. Instead that 8-9 kt speed convoy becomes a 1-2 kt convoy.

Deep Six · 04-17-07, 05:56 PM

Yup it becomes a Turkey Shoot.......Especially when the DD's are afraid to enter the convoy!!!

Deep six

Ilpalazzo · 04-17-07, 06:06 PM

Ugh agreed. I thought it was because I was in 41 and I was hoping that it was a one, two, three, four time thing, but it just keeps happening so I guess the ai really is dumb. The whole convoy/task force slowing to a crawl is just so ridiculous.

Didn't quite know about the ai sensors being retarded because without the detection meter in sh4 I have been trying my best not to be detected and assumed I was doing good. Gonna try ahead flanking and keeping scope and see what happens.

FAdmiral · 04-17-07, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WernerSobe

I dont like the AI.

Merchants stop when being attacked and never try to evade. In real they would go max speed and change course as often as possible. All enemy ships seem to be blind. I can surface 4000 yards away from the escort ships and attack the convoi with the deckgun without them paying attention.

I know from books that destroyers have often tracked torpedo tracks to find the subs so the captains were forced to dive deep before their torpedos arrived. In Sh4 i dont have to worry about that, i can even let my perescope up all the time at no risk at all.

Theyre also deaf. Or seem not to use their accustic sensors. I can go ahead flank 500 yards next to a destroyer and they dont notice me.

Maybe there are bugs involved but if not, thats way to easy and not realistic.

This is exactly what I was experiencing with my first install & 1.1 patch.
After countless missions, nothing was changing much so in frustration
I uninstalled the game completely and reinstalled it again with the patch.
Something MUST have been wrong with my first install because on the
second, the whole game now came alive and things went to normal.
I'm not saying that the escorts were uber but they went looking for me
and found me on more then 1 occasion. BTW, in the first install, I NEVER
heard pings, on the 2nd, I do all the time. Its like the 2 installs were
totally different games...

JIM

richoahu · 04-17-07, 08:49 PM

the DD find me as well. only way i can get away is to go silent and deep. if i come up to PD to take another shot i better make it quick as they get right back on me.

tater · 04-17-07, 09:00 PM

The DD behavior can be fine, but the convoy behavior just never is. Even poor DCing has an effect---it keeps the submarine DOWN while the escorted ships escape. If the escorted ships just park, you work to the far side of the escorts, send off a few more fish, rinse, repeat.

Oddly, the task forces seem to keep going. I stopped a Kongo, and she was left on her own. Exactly backwards, I'd have expected at least a couple of the DDs to detach and remain with her. Of course the BB wouldn't fire a gun at me when I surfaced. I got curious and tested the AI and backed up til I was on top of her. Not a shot from a BB that was never gonna sink, just imobilized.

Duke_Wellington_1st · 04-17-07, 09:31 PM

The AI makes the game a cakewalk at present. So many convoys to choose from - all of them seemingly deaf, and somtimes - blind!

Ive been able to surface in choppy conditions near destroyers without being fired upon. There is almost nothing to fear.

Keelbuster · 04-17-07, 09:55 PM

Yep..my experience as well. I had one convoy attack that sent me back to SH3. Attacked with torps, got bored, and tried to get detected - ran flank with periscope up beside an escort...nothing. Surfaced, entered the stationary convoy - started deckguning them. Escorts ...went away! Like - they seemed to go out to the perimeter, and vanished from view. Anyway, I had like 10 or 15 minutes to light up the merchants. Then I see a boat moving fairly quickly - an escort. He was coming right at me. I lit him up with the deck gun and he went down without firing a shot. I then had another 5 minutes or so before the another escort showed up - same routine. By now the convoy of 15 or so is down to ~4 ships. I have my way. Another escort comes up. Charges me - doesn't fire a shot mind you, and rubs along side me. I continue to empty AP rounds into him and he goes down right beside me. No damage to my boat. I continue to finish off the rest of the convoy with the deck gun. It was unsatisfying to say the least. SH3 was all about fear of, and respect for, the superior firepower of the escorts. Pop your scope up too high, and you'll have a black swan bearing down on you and for god's sake, you'll dive. I'm astonished that they managed to _remove_ that part of the game during the development for SH4. I'm starting to wonder, maybe there's a boolean somewhere with an name like AI_Active, which is accidentally set to 0. If only we could find it...

Duke_Wellington_1st · 04-17-07, 10:22 PM

Yep so very dissapointing , especially with such a critical part of the game. My last attempt to play ended very much the same as yours. Left me feeling like I was playing a console game. A feeling I do not welcome with open arms.

Reaves · 04-17-07, 10:30 PM

I agree.

The best fun of SH3 was lurking into a harbour, creating havock and trying to escape. The thrill of hearing the screws come closer and closer then all of a sudden depth charges booming all around and making my boat shake like my mrs on a washing machine.

I can count how many times i've been pinged in SH4 on one hand..... Once.

Onkel Neal · 04-17-07, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WernerSobe

I dont like the AI.

Merchants stop when being attacked and never try to evade. In real they would go max speed and change course as often as possible.

I know from books that destroyers have often tracked torpedo tracks to find the subs so the captains were forced to dive deep before their torpedos arrived. In Sh4 i dont have to worry about that, i can even let my perescope up all the time at no risk at all.

Agreed, this needs attention.

04-17-07, 05:20 PM	#1
WernerSobe Commodore Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 625 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	im not happy with AI I dont like the AI. Merchants stop when being attacked and never try to evade. In real they would go max speed and change course as often as possible. All enemy ships seem to be blind. I can surface 4000 yards away from the escort ships and attack the convoi with the deckgun without them paying attention. I know from books that destroyers have often tracked torpedo tracks to find the subs so the captains were forced to dive deep before their torpedos arrived. In Sh4 i dont have to worry about that, i can even let my perescope up all the time at no risk at all. Theyre also deaf. Or seem not to use their accustic sensors. I can go ahead flank 500 yards next to a destroyer and they dont notice me. Maybe there are bugs involved but if not, thats way to easy and not realistic.

04-17-07, 05:43 PM	#2
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	This is my biggest gripe as well, and something I hope they tune in patch 1.3 __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

04-17-07, 05:56 PM	#4
Deep Six Ensign Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: England, Manchester. Posts: 235 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 0	Yup it becomes a Turkey Shoot.......Especially when the DD's are afraid to enter the convoy!!! Deep six __________________

04-17-07, 09:55 PM	#10
Keelbuster Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: BA 72 Posts: 1,092 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Yep..my experience as well. I had one convoy attack that sent me back to SH3. Attacked with torps, got bored, and tried to get detected - ran flank with periscope up beside an escort...nothing. Surfaced, entered the stationary convoy - started deckguning them. Escorts ...went away! Like - they seemed to go out to the perimeter, and vanished from view. Anyway, I had like 10 or 15 minutes to light up the merchants. Then I see a boat moving fairly quickly - an escort. He was coming right at me. I lit him up with the deck gun and he went down without firing a shot. I then had another 5 minutes or so before the another escort showed up - same routine. By now the convoy of 15 or so is down to ~4 ships. I have my way. Another escort comes up. Charges me - doesn't fire a shot mind you, and rubs along side me. I continue to empty AP rounds into him and he goes down right beside me. No damage to my boat. I continue to finish off the rest of the convoy with the deck gun. It was unsatisfying to say the least. SH3 was all about fear of, and respect for, the superior firepower of the escorts. Pop your scope up too high, and you'll have a black swan bearing down on you and for god's sake, you'll dive. I'm astonished that they managed to _remove_ that part of the game during the development for SH4. I'm starting to wonder, maybe there's a boolean somewhere with an name like AI_Active, which is accidentally set to 0. If only we could find it... __________________

04-17-07, 10:30 PM	#12
Reaves The Old Man Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,509 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I agree. The best fun of SH3 was lurking into a harbour, creating havock and trying to escape. The thrill of hearing the screws come closer and closer then all of a sudden depth charges booming all around and making my boat shake like my mrs on a washing machine. I can count how many times i've been pinged in SH4 on one hand..... Once. __________________

04-17-07, 05:54 PM	#3
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Getting the AI to respond to its sensors can, and has been modded. (as im sure some users of my mod pack prior to 1.2 can attest to ) What bugs me is certain hardcoded behaviors. Merchants stopping for one. What REALLY bugs me is convoys will slow down to the speed of the lowest ship in the convoy. If you damage one ,and hes doing 1-2 kts, he wont become a straggler. Instead that 8-9 kt speed convoy becomes a 1-2 kt convoy.

04-17-07, 06:06 PM	#5
Ilpalazzo Frogman Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 309 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	Ugh agreed. I thought it was because I was in 41 and I was hoping that it was a one, two, three, four time thing, but it just keeps happening so I guess the ai really is dumb. The whole convoy/task force slowing to a crawl is just so ridiculous. Didn't quite know about the ai sensors being retarded because without the detection meter in sh4 I have been trying my best not to be detected and assumed I was doing good. Gonna try ahead flanking and keeping scope and see what happens.

04-17-07, 08:49 PM	#7
richoahu Sailor man Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 44 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	the DD find me as well. only way i can get away is to go silent and deep. if i come up to PD to take another shot i better make it quick as they get right back on me.

04-17-07, 09:00 PM	#8
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	The DD behavior can be fine, but the convoy behavior just never is. Even poor DCing has an effect---it keeps the submarine DOWN while the escorted ships escape. If the escorted ships just park, you work to the far side of the escorts, send off a few more fish, rinse, repeat. Oddly, the task forces seem to keep going. I stopped a Kongo, and she was left on her own. Exactly backwards, I'd have expected at least a couple of the DDs to detach and remain with her. Of course the BB wouldn't fire a gun at me when I surfaced. I got curious and tested the AI and backed up til I was on top of her. Not a shot from a BB that was never gonna sink, just imobilized.

04-17-07, 09:31 PM	#9
Duke_Wellington_1st Watch Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 22 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The AI makes the game a cakewalk at present. So many convoys to choose from - all of them seemingly deaf, and somtimes - blind! Ive been able to surface in choppy conditions near destroyers without being fired upon. There is almost nothing to fear.

04-17-07, 10:22 PM	#11
Duke_Wellington_1st Watch Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 22 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yep so very dissapointing , especially with such a critical part of the game. My last attempt to play ended very much the same as yours. Left me feeling like I was playing a console game. A feeling I do not welcome with open arms.