Crab Walk

Heibges · 03-08-07, 02:31 PM

I was just reading Crab Walk by Gunter Grass. It's about sinking of the Wilhelm Gustoff by the Russians in 1945.

Very good.

bigboywooly · 03-08-07, 02:36 PM

Ah the greatest ship sinking disaster

Some sources put the figure as high as 10,000 + on board

The ships webbie here
http://www.wilhelmgustloff.com/

cobalt · 03-08-07, 03:24 PM

that sub commander also sank a hospitol ship later in the war, and was awarded hero of the soviet union. What a *****

OuNiS · 03-09-07, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobalt

that sub commander also sank a hospitol ship later in the war, and was awarded hero of the soviet union. What a *****

Yes, it was captain Marinescu. Soviet goverment rejected German request to abide regarding the immunity of hospital ships.

It was bloody war...

Jimbuna · 03-09-07, 05:04 AM

A real tragedy that sadly was never recognised by the soviets

Foghladh_mhara · 03-09-07, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobalt

that sub commander also sank a hospitol ship later in the war, and was awarded hero of the soviet union. What a *****

Easy to get carried away i suppose. Look at Morton in Wahoo. He got a navy cross for doing something that would have had him standing in Nuremburg had he been on the other side

OuNiS · 03-09-07, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foghladh_mhara

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobalt

that sub commander also sank a hospitol ship later in the war, and was awarded hero of the soviet union. What a *****

Easy to get carried away i suppose. Look at Morton in Wahoo. He got a navy cross for doing something that would have had him standing in Nuremburg had he been on the other side

That's true but USA, Soviet Union and other allies won WWII.

Mush Martin · 03-09-07, 06:06 AM

I suppose though we should consider the Pshycology and Disposition of
the Soviet Peoples of the time from their perspective they were not
convinced of the Conduct of the Germans and of course Barbarossa
had engendered bitter hatred.

I Wonder if we all under such circumsances as they were under would
still retain our morale compunctions or as men of action both direct
and indirect would we see it as an expediency and justify it to
ourselves.:hmm:

Slick Rick · 03-09-07, 06:08 AM

Where is the heroics in sinking a hospital ship? Atrocities were not reserved for one side however.....

Mush Martin · 03-09-07, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foghladh_mhara

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobalt

that sub commander also sank a hospitol ship later in the war, and was awarded hero of the soviet union. What a *****

Easy to get carried away i suppose. Look at Morton in Wahoo. He got a navy cross for doing something that would have had him standing in Nuremburg had he been on the other side

As I said on the other thread about Dudley W (Mush) Morton
Maybe the only people involved that understood what he was
doing were the Japanese soldiers in the water. Of all who have
visited the issues over the years that have advocated on their
behalf I believe only the Japanese in the water understood what
he was doing and I dont believe they would have percieved it
as a crime.

Mush Martin · 03-09-07, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slick Rick

Where is the heroics in sinking a hospital ship? Atrocities were not reserved for one side however.....

In true and Grimmer terms warfare isnt about heroics its about
winning by any means.

Foghladh_mhara · 03-09-07, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mush Martin

As I said on the other thread about Dudley W (Mush) Morton
Maybe the only people involved that understood what he was
doing were the Japanese soldiers in the water. Of all who have
visited the issues over the years that have advocated on their
behalf I believe only the Japanese in the water understood what
he was doing and I dont believe they would have percieved it
as a crime.

Oh please!! I can very well understand getting carried away in the heat of battle but to claim the poor bastards killed in the water would understand is a bit daft.

Mush Martin · 03-09-07, 06:21 AM

I disagree they would have willingly done it to the americans given a chance.

Foghladh_mhara · 03-09-07, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mush Martin

I disagree they would have willingly done it to the americans given a chance.

And you know this to be true? How about the Indian PoW's in the water with them? Would they have understood as well?

Slick Rick · 03-09-07, 06:31 AM

After reading a bit further on the site...It is apparent that the Gustoff was used as a troop carrier at one point as well as a hospital ship and even as a floating barracks for sailors....so it is possible the Soviet skipper did not realize it was full of refugees.....I guess.....the ship did not carry hospital ship markings at the time of her sinking...... War....Is an atrocity....

03-08-07, 02:31 PM	#1
Heibges Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 1,633 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Crab Walk I was just reading Crab Walk by Gunter Grass. It's about sinking of the Wilhelm Gustoff by the Russians in 1945. Very good. __________________ U.Kdt.Hdb B. I. 28) This possibility of using the hydrophone to help in detecting surface ships should, however, be restricted to those cases where the submarine is unavoidably compelled to stay below the surface. http://www.hackworth.com/

03-08-07, 02:36 PM	#2
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Ah the greatest ship sinking disaster Some sources put the figure as high as 10,000 + on board The ships webbie here http://www.wilhelmgustloff.com/ __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

03-09-07, 05:04 AM	#5
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,500 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	A real tragedy that sadly was never recognised by the soviets __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

03-09-07, 06:06 AM	#8
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I suppose though we should consider the Pshycology and Disposition of the Soviet Peoples of the time from their perspective they were not convinced of the Conduct of the Germans and of course Barbarossa had engendered bitter hatred. I Wonder if we all under such circumsances as they were under would still retain our morale compunctions or as men of action both direct and indirect would we see it as an expediency and justify it to ourselves.:hmm: __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial

03-09-07, 06:08 AM	#9
Slick Rick Sonar Guy Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Whats left of Florida Posts: 396 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Where is the heroics in sinking a hospital ship? Atrocities were not reserved for one side however..... __________________ Wasserbomb!!!!

03-08-07, 03:24 PM	#3
cobalt Commander Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 440 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	that sub commander also sank a hospitol ship later in the war, and was awarded hero of the soviet union. What a *****

03-09-07, 06:21 AM	#13
Mush Martin Eternal Patrol Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,398 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I disagree they would have willingly done it to the americans given a chance. __________________ RIP Mush Tutorial

03-09-07, 06:31 AM	#15
Slick Rick Sonar Guy Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Whats left of Florida Posts: 396 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	After reading a bit further on the site...It is apparent that the Gustoff was used as a troop carrier at one point as well as a hospital ship and even as a floating barracks for sailors....so it is possible the Soviet skipper did not realize it was full of refugees.....I guess.....the ship did not carry hospital ship markings at the time of her sinking...... War....Is an atrocity.... __________________ Wasserbomb!!!! Last edited by Slick Rick; 03-09-07 at 12:34 PM.