"Does communism work after all?"

[Skybird]

It is a random coincidence that yesterday, when China's stock market sneezed, this essay about China'S economical acting and ambitions was published by Der Spiegel. It is a longer essay, but a very worthy reading, especially so if you happen to not have dealt with China before and are wondering why and how they are doing what they are doing, economically.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...465007,00.html

In another thread someone was saying today that China sneezed and the rest of the world got a cold. There is truth in that.

In the same context:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...385446,00.html
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...461828,00.html

[The Avon Lady]

Sure it works! As long as the "haves" can control the "have-nots". Just like in the good ol' days!

We have a friend who travels to China several times a year for business. Go behind the facades of skyscrapers and the houses for the "have" and see how the economy is hardly trickling down.

I need not tell you how the human trait of jealousy will not let things stand as they are forever. If it will be suppressed, it will be brutal. If it foments country-wide, wages will shoot up and China will wobble.

Remember when the world thought Japan controlled the ups and downs of the global economy 2 decades ago? Yes, international economy is more global now but the lopsided advantages of countries like China and India will not be tollerated forever.

Let's come back to this thread in 2 decades time and see what's changed.

[The Avon Lady]

I will tell you one thing that has never worked properly since its inception: the stock market.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Sure it works! As long as the "haves" can control the "have-nots". Just like in the good ol' days!

We have a friend who travels to China several times a year for business. Go behind the facades of skyscrapers and the houses for the "have" and see how the economy is hardly trickling down.

I need not tell you how the human trait of jealousy will not let things stand as they are forever. If it will be suppressed, it will be brutal. If it foments country-wide, wages will shoot up and China will wobble.

Remember when the world thought Japan controlled the ups and downs of the global economy 2 decades ago? Yes, international economy is more global now but the lopsided advantages of countries like China and India will not be tollerated forever.

Let's come back to this thread in 2 decades time and see what's changed.

I wonder if you have red the full article, and the conclusions in the last third of it or so...? Your reply is unusual pointless. Your remarks all in all got adressed.

[Captain Nemo]

Well I would say no, because as the article points out, many party intellectuals fear that their country is already drifting inexorably towards capitalism. For China to be as successful as it has and for this to grow, it has had to embrace capitalism. As for the poor remaining poor and the rich getting richer (Avon Lady) isn't that what capatilism is really all about? In the UK for example, go back a hundred years or so and you could say a similar situation happened here. It was only with the help of the Trade Unions and subsequently the Labour Party back in the early 20th Century that living standards for the working class got much better over time.

Nemo

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Skybird

[I wonder if you have red the full article, and the conclusions in the last third of it or so...? Your reply is unusual pointless. Your remarks all in all got adressed.

Chutzpah! Yes, I had read the article. I simple summarized in 250 words or less. Or is that forbidden? :hmm:

[Letum]

Someone should point out that China is not communist. It's just a complex dictatorship that calls it's self "communist".

True communism, as defined by the great economic/political philosophers, has never fully worked on a national scale. If it was working on a national scale then it is unlikely that the country would be involved in the stock exchange and financial matters would not be a indicator of communism "working".

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Captain Nemo

Well I would say no, because as the article points out, many party intellectuals fear that their country is already drifting inexorably towards capitalism. For China to be as successful as it has and for this to grow, it has had to embrace capitalism. As for the poor remaining poor and the rich getting richer (Avon Lady) isn't that what capatilism is really all about? In the UK for example, go back a hundred years or so and you could say a similar situation happened here. It was only with the help of the Trade Unions and subsequently the Labour Party back in the early 20th Century that living standards for the working class got much better over time.

Nemo

I agree. And today we can see the gap between the poor and the rich widening fast again, both on western national and international levels. More and more wealth on the globe is massed in few and fewer hands, and with that, power.

Another view on it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6211250.stm

The bad habit of holding shares does not help in this. Morally, something is seriously flawed in that system. Demanding to get payed by workers doing the real tough work becasue I once lend their employer some money? Sounds like a parasite's behavior to me. It certainly helps to blow up the bubble.

And yes, I always rejected to buy shares.

If an apple costs one dollar, and you have three dollars, how many apples can you buy then? Maths, first class. That is what solid economizing is about.

[Letum]

I prefer to measure a countries worth by net happiness and not net produce.

It's interesting to see what countries score high.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Chutzpah! Yes, I had read the article. I simple summarized in 250 words or less. Or is that forbidden? :hmm:

I can't see that the authors were unaware of the things you were pointing at, and I did not understand your first answer as a "summary". And what the heck is a "Chutzpah"? Jewish curse, maybe?

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Skybird

And what the heck is a "Chutzpah"? Jewish curse, maybe?

You have a chutzpah to ask, when you could've googled for it and found this entry at the top of the results list.

[Skybird]

"zielgerichteter, intelligenter Unverschämtheit, charmanter Penetranz und unwiderstehlicher Dreistigkeit." (German wikipedia)I can live with that!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Letum

I prefer to measure a countries worth by net happiness and not net produce.

Only as long as their happiness does not come at YOUR cost and you are the one to pay their bills.

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Demanding to get payed by workers doing the real tough work becasue I once lend their employer some money? Sounds like a parasite's behavior to me. It certainly helps to blow up the bubble.

Perhaps that's because you seem to see the company and it's employees as two separate entities whereas they should all be on the same team.

A person who buys stock in a company does not lend it to an employer, he lends it to the company so they can use it to modernize and inprove their operation and products thereby keeping their people employed.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

I will tell you one thing that has never worked properly since its inception: the stock market.

More so now that it is being privatized