Reasonable religion in brief

[Skybird]

[Split from the "Last nights speech by President Bush" thread]. (Gizzmoe)

And ripped out of context that started it all. I did not start it - I answered to a previous post. Therefore edited and deleted. Sky

[geetrue]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Reasonable religion in brief: "Do not put faith in traditions, even though they have been accepted for long generations and in many countries. Do not believe a thing because many repeat it. Do not accept a thing on the authority of one or another of the sages of old, nor on the ground of statements as found in the books. Never believe anything because probability is in its favour. Do not believe in that which you yourselves have imagined, thinking that a god has inspired it. Believe nothing merely on the authority of the teachers or the priests. After examination, believe that which you have tested for yourself and found reasonable, which is in conformity with your well being and that of others." - Buddha, Kalamas Sutra. Often quoted, each time more precious.

Hebrews 11:1-3
1Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Indeed, by faith our ancestors received approval. By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible.

Saint Paul. Often quoted, each time believed

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by geetrue

Hebrews 11:1-3
1Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Indeed, by faith our ancestors received approval. By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible.

Saint Paul. Often quoted, each time believed

When I was reading Skybird's sceptic quote of Buddah I immediately thought about Hebrews and started searching for this quote. I don't mind at all that you were first, Geetrue!

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Buddha, Kalamas Sutra. Often quoted, each time more precious.

"Why settle for an imitation when you can have the real thing?" - The Dalai Lama

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

"Why settle for an imitation when you can have the real thing?" - The Dalai Lama

"All religions are an imitation of Judaism," he stated. "I am sure that when you lived in Israel, your eyes were closed. Please take the first plane back to Israel and open your eyes. Why settle for an imitation when you can have the real thing?"

I doubt that he ever said that.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

I doubt that he ever said that.

I doubt that he didn't. This story was conveyed first hand by the anonymous author to Rabbi Chaim Walder, who compiled the book "People Speak About Themselves", published by Feldheim Publishers.

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

I doubt that he didn't. This story was conveyed first hand by the anonymous author to Rabbi Chaim Walder, who compiled the book "People Speak About Themselves", published by Feldheim Publishers.

Usually you are the first to question information when someone mentions an anonymous source, but in this case you don´t? :hmm: Have you asked the Rabbi or the publisher if they have checked the story with the Dalai Lama? You could also email the Dalai Lama´s office to find out if that story is true or not (ohhdl@dalailama.com).

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

Usually you are the first to question information when someone mentions an anonymous source

Correct, usually, but....

but in this case you don´t? :hmm: Have you asked the Rabbi or the publisher if they have checked the story with the Dalai Lama?

I have no doubt that the book's author did NOT verify this via the Dalai Lama. He believed the person who told him directly of his own personal experience and wished to remain anonymous for reasons I can clearly understand.

You could also email the Dalai Lama´s office to find out if that story is true or not (ohhdl@dalailama.com).

Done.

[Letum]

From Avon's Link:

"All religions are an imitation of Judaism," he [H.H The Dali Lama] stated. "I am sure that when you lived in Israel, your eyes were closed. Please take the first plane back to Israel and open your eyes. Why settle for an imitation when you can have the real thing?"

I really don't see how Hinduism can "imitate" Judaism. Hinduism appeared around 500 years before Judaism and a long time before Judaism became a major religion.
Other religions liken Taoism developed in places almost entirely isolated from Jewish influence.
Both Christianity and Islam have a firm base in Jewish belief, but neither are "imitations". Rather, they have built upon Judaism by integrating parts of other religions and adding new features or removing old ones. Likewise, Buddhism built its beliefs upon Hinduism.
All religions share the links that make them religions; in the same way that all spoons share characteristics, like handles, that make them spoons. However, this does not mean that different spoons, such as the spork, are trying to imitate other spoons.

I seriously doubt the H.H.D.L. said "All religions are an imitation of Judaism". If he did say this, then he was clearly either wrong or expressing his views with the wrong words.

H.H The Dali Lama does ask people to look closely at their own religion and culture rather than converting as he believes that in all religions provide the spiritual food that people desire. He does ask people why they want to convert to Buddhism when they already have their own religion and it is plausible that he asked this person to "open his eyes" to his own culture and religion.

The writer of the article is writing at least 3 years after his meeting with H.H. The Dali Lama (according to the article). I think that with the writer's new found Jewish zeal he may have remembered what H.H.the D.L said in a different way. Everyone fits memories so that they are appropriate to the current situation.

This is a good example of how memory works. If you can't remember something word-for-word (i.e. you don't have a photographic memory from 3 years ago) you fill in the gaps using your other experience's of the world.
This can change things a lot. Take a look at the psychological studies on crime witness's memory to see some good examples.

H.H. The Dali Lama is not a secret Jew :rotfl:

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by geetrue

Hebrews 11:1-3
1Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Indeed, by faith our ancestors received approval. By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was made from things that are not visible.

Saint Paul. Often quoted, each time believed

Is it the same Paul my opinion of whom has been so wonderfully expressed by Nietzsche?

"Hard upon the heels of the "glad tidings" came the worst imaginable: those of Paul. In Paul is incarnated the very opposite of the "bearer of glad tidings"; he represents the genius for hatred, the vision of hatred, the relentless logic of hatred. What, indeed, has not this dysangelist sacrificed to hatred! Above all, the Saviour: he nailed him to his own cross. The life, the example, the teaching, the death of Christ, the meaning and the law of the whole gospels - nothing was left of all this after that counterfeiter in hatred had reduced it to his uses. Surely not reality; surely not historical truth! … Once more the priestly instinct of the Jew perpetrated the same old master crime against history - he simply struck out the yesterday and the day before yesterday of Christianity, and invented his own history of Christian beginnings. Going further, he treated the history of Israel to another falsification, so that it became a mere prologue to his achievement: all the prophets, it now appeared, had referred to his "Saviour."… Later on the church even falsified the history of man in order to make it a prologue to Christianity... The figure of the Saviour, his teaching, his way of life, his death, the meaning of his death, even the consequences of his death - nothing remained untouched, nothing remained in even remote contact with reality. Paul simply shifted the centre of gravity of that whole life to a place behind this existence - in the lie of the "risen" Jesus. At bottom, he had no use for the life of the Saviour - what he needed was the death on the cross, and something more. To see anything honest in such a man as Paul, whose home was at the centre of the Stoical enlightenment, when he converts an hallucination into a proof of the resurrection of the Saviour, or even to believe his tale that he suffered from this hallucination himself - this would be a genuine niaiserie in a psychologist. Paul willed the end; therefore he also willed the means. - What he himself didn't believe was swallowed readily enough by the idiots among whom he spread his teaching. - What he wanted was power; in Paul the priest once more reached out for power - he had use only for such concepts, teachings and symbols as served the purpose of tyrannizing over the masses and organizing mobs. What was the only part of Christianity that Mohammed borrowed later on? Paul's invention, his device for establishing priestly tyranny and organizing the mob: the belief in the immortality of the soul - that is to say, the doctrine of "judgment"."

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Letum

From Avon's Link:

I really don't see how Hinduism can "imitate" Judaism. Hinduism appeared around 500 years before Judaism and a long time before Judaism became a major religion.
Other religions liken Taoism developed in places almost entirely isolated from Jewish influence.

Sounds about right.

Both Christianity and Islam have a firm base in Jewish belief, but neither are "imitations".

False. Both plagiarize heavily from Judaism both in text, commandments and morals and ethics.

Rather, they have built upon Judaism by integrating parts of other religions and adding new features or removing old ones.

This falls within the definitions of "imitate":

im·i·tate
–verb (used with object), -tat·ed, -tat·ing.
1. to follow or endeavor to follow as a model or example: to imitate an author's style; to imitate an older brother.
2. to mimic; impersonate: The students imitated the teacher behind her back.
3. to make a copy of; reproduce closely.
4. to have or assume the appearance of; simulate; resemble.

Likewise, Buddhism built its beliefs upon Hinduism.
All religions share the links that make them religions; in the same way that all spoons share characteristics, like handles, that make them spoons. However, this does not mean that different spoons, such as the spork, are trying to imitate other spoons.

Again refer to definitions 1 and 4, even 2 somewhat.

I seriously doubt the H.H.D.L. said "All religions are an imitation of Judaism". If he did say this, then he was clearly either wrong or expressing his views with the wrong words.

H.H The Dali Lama does ask people to look closely at their own religion and culture rather than converting as he believes that in all religions provide the spiritual food that people desire. He does ask people why they want to convert to Buddhism when they already have their own religion and it is plausible that he asked this person to "open his eyes" to his own culture and religion.

The writer of the article is writing at least 3 years after his meeting with H.H. The Dali Lama (according to the article). I think that with the writer's new found Jewish zeal he may have remembered what H.H.the D.L said in a different way. Everyone fits memories so that they are appropriate to the current situation.

This is a good example of how memory works. If you can't remember something word-for-word (i.e. you don't have a photographic memory from 3 years ago) you fill in the gaps using your other experience's of the world.
This can change things a lot. Take a look at the psychological studies on crime witness's memory to see some good examples.

Nothing new there. Yet we do not automatically dismiss testimonies unless we have evidence otherwise.

[The Avon Lady]

I hadn't even sat down to open the books I wanted to use to respond regarding Paul when Skybird cuts and pastes just what I was looking for.

[nightdagger]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

False. Both plagiarize heavily from Judaism both in text, commandments and morals and ethics.

It's not plagarizing, at least for Christianity. Christians do acknowledge that the Bible was originally the Jewish Torah until we added the New Testament. The commandments that Jesus gives Christians are summarizations of the 10 commandments and Jewish law.

"Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, and strength. This is the first and greatest commandment. The second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself." As compared to the 10 commandments' specific rules of how to do so.

I don't know about Islam though, but it's kind of odd to call it plagarizing since plagarizing is taking the works of others and calling it your own and that doesn't happen.

[Letum]

I'm guessing you are Jewish Avon?

(just a hunch )

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

I hadn't even sat down to open the books I wanted to use to respond regarding Paul when Skybird cuts and pastes just what I was looking for.

you say that like it is a good thing...

Skybird quotes a spirtually dead man's belief and believes it because he is spiritually dead ,as are you Avon Lady, if you do not believe that Christ is the Son of God made flesh and was crucifed on the cross and rose again the 3rd day and now sits at the right hand of God and will return again to execute judgement.

Paul or Saul was a chosen vessel of God because of his intense persecution of God's people...I am guessing now to show such people as yourselves that no matter how much evil has been done a way back to Him was provided by the ransom of His sons life...

It is hard to kick against the cactus spikes no?

Jews are Gods chosen people and Israel is his but the gift was given to gentiles until the time of the end then the Jews eyes will be re-opened.This is not my design but Gods.This is wrote not for the unbeliever or Jew but to the believer so he may understand why Jews don't get it and Muslims don't get it and Athesits don't get it...Christians get it and seem to stress out over why the rest don't...but they should not stress... but wait on God to fufill his promises and do as was commanded.