Patch or mod to fix this?

nutworld · 01-06-07, 10:58 AM

Is there a way to "fix" (??) the assent of a 688i sub in DW? I'm playing LWAMI 3.02 and DW v1.03.

I'm not a bubblehead, having served on a bird farm, but it just seems that to go from 150 feet to 60 feet in 50 seconds or so seems pretty unrealistic. Maybe it is, and I need to be corrected.

Everything I've seen and read about sub operations seems that the diving action in the game is correct- for lack of a better term. Am I way off base?

Why can you do one really fast, and the other so very slow?

I'm not being critical of the representation of the DIVE, just curious if it is accurate.

Thanks guys

Bellman · 01-06-07, 12:06 PM

If you subtract the levelling-off time in the last 20 ft (or so) of the ordered depth change ascent then it looks healthier.The final level adjustments take for ever ! But overall I agree its not realistic ? I hope ! This issue has been much discussed.

I gather SCS are looking (sic) at this - lets hope that means addressing the issue and coming up with a satisfactory conclusion. But not beeing in 'the loop' your guess is as good as mine ! See the 'eastern promise' posts in ''new 1.4 patch.''

SUBMAN1 · 01-08-07, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutworld

Is there a way to "fix" (??) the assent of a 688i sub in DW? I'm playing LWAMI 3.02 and DW v1.03.

I'm not a bubblehead, having served on a bird farm, but it just seems that to go from 150 feet to 60 feet in 50 seconds or so seems pretty unrealistic. Maybe it is, and I need to be corrected.

Everything I've seen and read about sub operations seems that the diving action in the game is correct- for lack of a better term. Am I way off base?

Why can you do one really fast, and the other so very slow?

I'm not being critical of the representation of the DIVE, just curious if it is accurate.

Thanks guys

If you're impatient, set the depth even higher - like 50 feet or just before you surface, and then set it back down to 60 when you get close. Works for me.

-S

BigBadVuk · 01-09-07, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

If you're impatient, set the depth even higher - like 50 feet or just before you surface, and then set it back down to 60 when you get close. Works for me.

-S

Nah.. I managed to wreck my TA a LOT of times that way if im going faster than 4-5knots

I know that it is totaly unrealistic for sub to start pitching like drunk man( even if all onboard are drunk :rotfl: ) but the question is WHY is that happening ? is that hardcoded or is there some workaround for that?

sonar732 · 01-09-07, 09:18 AM

Please note this 1.04 patch topic.

SUBMAN1 · 01-09-07, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBadVuk

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

If you're impatient, set the depth even higher - like 50 feet or just before you surface, and then set it back down to 60 when you get close. Works for me.

-S

Nah.. I managed to wreck my TA a LOT of times that way if im going faster than 4-5knots

I know that it is totaly unrealistic for sub to start pitching like drunk man( even if all onboard are drunk :rotfl: ) but the question is WHY is that happening ? is that hardcoded or is there some workaround for that?

I've never broken a wire. Of course, I never go that fast near the surface since you are in the surface duct and everyone with a simple microphone can hear a speeding sub near the surface! Why are you going faster than 5 knots for like that anyway?

Anyway, our new patch is almost upon us, so the bobbing effect you describe (which has never happened to me personally) should be fixed.

-S

Dr.Sid · 01-09-07, 01:28 PM

Yeah .. it's called 'drunken planesman' syndrome. It was introduces in 1.03 and it should be fixed in 1.04.

Akula at 5kts, big depth change from deep to shallow (like from under the layer to PD), almost 100% chance of cutting TA with 1.03. The mechanism is like this: sub surfaces .. bug makes it pitch down .. sub pitched down is slowed down by water flowing around it (correct) .. sub reaches speed 0 and then negative .. TA is cut off (simplistic, but correct).
The TA loss happens when sub reach negative speed. It is not caused by TA colliding with the propeller - such thing seems not to be detected.

If you want to avoid it, check your speed during ascend. When it gets under 3kts, put some more steam into engines .. don't worry about the noise. In DW both noise and cavitation are based on actual speed against ground, not on actual engine order or RPM (there is nothing like enine RPM even simulated).

SUBMAN1 · 01-09-07, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Yeah .. it's called 'drunken planesman' syndrome. It was introduces in 1.03 and it should be fixed in 1.04.

Akula at 5kts, big depth change from deep to shallow (like from under the layer to PD), almost 100% chance of cutting TA with 1.03. The mechanism is like this: sub surfaces .. bug makes it pitch down .. sub pitched down is slowed down by water flowing around it (correct) .. sub reaches speed 0 and then negative .. TA is cut off (simplistic, but correct).
The TA loss happens when sub reach negative speed. It is not caused by TA colliding with the propeller - such thing seems not to be detected.

If you want to avoid it, check your speed during ascend. When it gets under 3kts, put some more steam into engines .. don't worry about the noise. In DW both noise and cavitation are based on actual speed against ground, not on actual engine order or RPM (there is nothing like enine RPM even simulated).

I haven't played much with the Akula - so maybe that explains it? I don't care much for the sonar system, though it makes things easier to pinpoint in direction mentally, once you get used to the AMerican waterfall, it is just so much easier to pick out quiet contacts!

-S

PS. I should point out too that I am partial to the Kilo too when playing Russian equipment! Something about taking on high tech equipment with low tech subs that intrigues me!

Bubblehead Nuke · 01-09-07, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

In DW both noise and cavitation are based on actual speed against ground, not on actual engine order or RPM (there is nothing like enine RPM even simulated).

This is an issue that I wish we could patch. Noise levels are not linearly proportional to speed. There are actually breakpoints when the propulsion noises (in a nuke boat) increase. Under those breakpoints there is no real change of own ships noise for in increase in speed. You do have an affect on sensor performance but radiated ownships noise does not increase significantly. Thus speed is not about being quiet but your ability to hear the other guy and thus avoid counterdetection.

Dr.Sid · 01-09-07, 04:38 PM

As for Russian vs. US sonar .. don't forget first contact is made with narrowband. And Russian narowband allows you to see more NB contacts at once ! Sure US waterfall is nice and at low-speed settings it is pretty sensitive, but it is hardly an advantage.

XabbaRus · 01-09-07, 05:07 PM

What version are you using Bubblehead? That was an issue at the beginning that noise doesn't increase with speed but that was fixed. When you go faster you are noisier.

Bubblehead Nuke · 01-10-07, 02:04 AM

I am fully up to date. I am talking about the radiated noise vs ownships speed. Right now it is as you said, the faster you go the noisier you are. However, that is actually not true.

Being VERY careful how I word this now.....

Ownships noise does not increase in proportion to ships speed. Up to a certain point you can increase ships speed with little change in radiated noise levels. Once a certain speed is attained you have a marked increase in radiated ships noise. The only real detrimental affect speed has until that point is the effectiveness of ships sensors. As far as you being detected, going faster does not increase your chance of being detected, but DECREASES your abiltity to detect the OTHER guy.

I have talked about this in roundabout terms before. I am trying to explain it in generic terms that will not compromise operational boats. Please forgive me if this sounds dumbed down.

BigBadVuk · 01-10-07, 05:59 AM

I agree with you Bubblehead...
Let me put this way: If u are using only 30% of reractor power and your main coolant pumps are on LOW settings and you are creeping at 2 knots you are very,very quiet..If you speed up to 5-7 you will ( im not shure for details,but you will understand) have to increase power outputo to lets say 40%,BUT your coolant pumps will still be able to keep up with heat on LOW.Now if you need to go faster you will at some point switch from LOW to HIGH ( or whatever you call that) and voila: there is sudden increase in noise on certain freq. and that level of noise will stay for lets say up to 20 or so and then will suddenly go even louder..etc..Im talking about reactor equipment only,im not talking about turbines,generators and other aux equipment... Im not an expert but i think there are few of this "thresholds" around.
But if you are going fast and then you order all stop you will not stop at once but radiated nose will be reducet almoust instantly...

Dr.Sid · 01-10-07, 07:05 AM

Yeah .. radiated ownship noise does not increase that much .. but waterflow noise does increase. All summed noise does increase.

It is however fact that ship's noise is made mostly of discrete frequencies and is visible on NB, while waterflow noise is only visible on BB, which too is not reflected in DW AFAIK.

XabbaRus · 01-10-07, 07:30 AM

Well write to Jamie, I am sure this is something that could be looked at and incorporated

01-06-07, 10:58 AM	#1
nutworld Engineer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Flint, Michigan, USA Posts: 200 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	Patch or mod to fix this? Is there a way to "fix" (??) the assent of a 688i sub in DW? I'm playing LWAMI 3.02 and DW v1.03. I'm not a bubblehead, having served on a bird farm, but it just seems that to go from 150 feet to 60 feet in 50 seconds or so seems pretty unrealistic. Maybe it is, and I need to be corrected. Everything I've seen and read about sub operations seems that the diving action in the game is correct- for lack of a better term. Am I way off base? Why can you do one really fast, and the other so very slow? I'm not being critical of the representation of the DIVE, just curious if it is accurate. Thanks guys

01-06-07, 12:06 PM	#2
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	If you subtract the levelling-off time in the last 20 ft (or so) of the ordered depth change ascent then it looks healthier.The final level adjustments take for ever ! But overall I agree its not realistic ? I hope ! This issue has been much discussed. I gather SCS are looking (sic) at this - lets hope that means addressing the issue and coming up with a satisfactory conclusion. But not beeing in 'the loop' your guess is as good as mine ! See the 'eastern promise' posts in ''new 1.4 patch.'' __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity Last edited by Bellman; 01-06-07 at 12:28 PM.

01-09-07, 05:07 PM	#11
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	What version are you using Bubblehead? That was an issue at the beginning that noise doesn't increase with speed but that was fixed. When you go faster you are noisier. __________________

01-10-07, 05:59 AM	#13
BigBadVuk Ensign Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Belgrade,Serbia Posts: 222 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I agree with you Bubblehead... Let me put this way: If u are using only 30% of reractor power and your main coolant pumps are on LOW settings and you are creeping at 2 knots you are very,very quiet..If you speed up to 5-7 you will ( im not shure for details,but you will understand) have to increase power outputo to lets say 40%,BUT your coolant pumps will still be able to keep up with heat on LOW.Now if you need to go faster you will at some point switch from LOW to HIGH ( or whatever you call that) and voila: there is sudden increase in noise on certain freq. and that level of noise will stay for lets say up to 20 or so and then will suddenly go even louder..etc..Im talking about reactor equipment only,im not talking about turbines,generators and other aux equipment... Im not an expert but i think there are few of this "thresholds" around. But if you are going fast and then you order all stop you will not stop at once but radiated nose will be reducet almoust instantly... __________________ Any ship can submerge.. Only submarine can surface!

01-10-07, 07:30 AM	#15
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Well write to Jamie, I am sure this is something that could be looked at and incorporated __________________

01-09-07, 09:18 AM	#5
sonar732 The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Central MO Posts: 1,562 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Please note this 1.04 patch topic.

01-09-07, 01:28 PM	#7
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Yeah .. it's called 'drunken planesman' syndrome. It was introduces in 1.03 and it should be fixed in 1.04. Akula at 5kts, big depth change from deep to shallow (like from under the layer to PD), almost 100% chance of cutting TA with 1.03. The mechanism is like this: sub surfaces .. bug makes it pitch down .. sub pitched down is slowed down by water flowing around it (correct) .. sub reaches speed 0 and then negative .. TA is cut off (simplistic, but correct). The TA loss happens when sub reach negative speed. It is not caused by TA colliding with the propeller - such thing seems not to be detected. If you want to avoid it, check your speed during ascend. When it gets under 3kts, put some more steam into engines .. don't worry about the noise. In DW both noise and cavitation are based on actual speed against ground, not on actual engine order or RPM (there is nothing like enine RPM even simulated).

01-09-07, 04:38 PM	#10
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	As for Russian vs. US sonar .. don't forget first contact is made with narrowband. And Russian narowband allows you to see more NB contacts at once ! Sure US waterfall is nice and at low-speed settings it is pretty sensitive, but it is hardly an advantage.

01-10-07, 02:04 AM	#12
Bubblehead Nuke XO Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 435 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I am fully up to date. I am talking about the radiated noise vs ownships speed. Right now it is as you said, the faster you go the noisier you are. However, that is actually not true. Being VERY careful how I word this now..... Ownships noise does not increase in proportion to ships speed. Up to a certain point you can increase ships speed with little change in radiated noise levels. Once a certain speed is attained you have a marked increase in radiated ships noise. The only real detrimental affect speed has until that point is the effectiveness of ships sensors. As far as you being detected, going faster does not increase your chance of being detected, but DECREASES your abiltity to detect the OTHER guy. I have talked about this in roundabout terms before. I am trying to explain it in generic terms that will not compromise operational boats. Please forgive me if this sounds dumbed down.

01-10-07, 07:05 AM	#14
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Yeah .. radiated ownship noise does not increase that much .. but waterflow noise does increase. All summed noise does increase. It is however fact that ship's noise is made mostly of discrete frequencies and is visible on NB, while waterflow noise is only visible on BB, which too is not reflected in DW AFAIK.