Torpedo in the water!

Enigma · 06-04-06, 10:37 AM

.....What do you do?

just curious to get an idea of what you guys normally do as an evasive tactic when fired upon....

goldorak · 06-04-06, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigma

.....What do you do?

just curious to get an idea of what you guys normally do as an evasive tactic when fired upon....

Wait some minutes to decide if the torpedo is coming for me, otherwise i stay low and silent.
As to the evasive tactics, most of them are illustrated in the "Multiplayer Tactical Employment Manual" available on subguru website.

FERdeBOER · 06-04-06, 03:18 PM

Therea are several tactics.
i.e: you can read the Seawolves Bluebook (in download section of www.subguru.com) and ther's a section about that.

There's no a "universal" question about this, and after many tries and visits to the bottom, you will find your way.

I can say mine to you: is not very pollished, because I'm not an expert (even advanced), but many times works.

First, don't panic. Look the torp on your sonar screen. If is faint or you can't hear it, be calm, it's far. If you can see it clearly, is close, but not panic yet.

Look the movement, if the signal is moving, probably is not going to your direction, so the better thing to do is remain quiet and, if you judge is nedded, set course to opposite direction (because maybe when the torp becomes active, can catch you).
If the signal remains still... well, the torp is on your direction and very probably is closing. You can begin to panic

Now begins the personal way to evade. I've read about launching active or passive decoys depending if the torpedo is active or passive, but I'm not feel confindent with that.

My first move when I'm sure the torp is heading to my sub and it has possibilities (you will know that with practise), is manouevering my sub with the torp on a 45º angle of my stern, acceletare (but not to flank yet) and launch the two types of countermeasures on the opposite depth. After a while, when I'm sure the countermeasures are between the torp and my sub, I make a 90º turn and launch another couple of countermasures in the middle of the turn.

Contiune running for a while and then reduce to listen, many times I evaded the torp just with this.
If the torp continues behind you, begin to think on more agressive manoeuvers and at more speed... and yes, you can panic

Hope this helps.

Nexus7 · 06-04-06, 03:56 PM

It depends on witch platform I am driving, and on what platform my opponent is driving.
If the opponent drives an Akula and I drive a Seawolf but didn't yet detect him, I am 90% sure he hasn't got me. If I did detect him, the matter becomes more serious. I immediately check the BB sonar. If i see some fat traces the first thing i do, is to assign contact on SA and TA to gain a master asap and I start to worry. Having a master I know if I am already in danger or not, knowing the aquisition range of the ASROCS.

If the fishes are close (ASROCS) or in my direction (65cm, adcap...) I fire back immediately. If they're on my direction but not ASROC, if i can i go hide behind some seamount and clear datum.

If there are helos or Orions in game, things become more complex...

Deadeye313 · 06-04-06, 11:08 PM

what about for us FFG players? how do we get away? We don't have countermeasures and we would need an island to hide.

LuftWolf · 06-04-06, 11:43 PM

You have the Nixie, which is 85% effective against non-wakehoming torpedoes (at least for one use until you can rig it back in and out again).

First of all, countermeasures other than the Nixie should not make torpedoes explode on CM's and that's the way it is in LWAMI so my answer will account for this.

I am also assuming you have verified that the torpedoes are actually headed your way, which is a whole different topic. Evading torpedoes not aimed at you is worse than evading late.

In stock DW, for subs, set course 180 from the incoming torpedo, and fire two decoys. Repeat this until there are no more torpedoes in the water.

For LWAMI, (for LWAMI4, to be released, GO DEEP! most torpedoes lose speed at depth, and some can even be made to exceed max depth and shut down if they are tracking you) I recommend setting course initially 180 from the incoming torpedo and going to flank. Fire a single active decoy, and then another active decoy about 1-2 seconds later. Then turn course 90-130 from the torpedo (using a more acute angle to the torpedo if it is closer, hard left or right rudder to a full reverse course if you believe the torpedo has already acquired your decoys). Then head on until you don't think the torpedo is a threat any more (not pinging you), or you need to slow down and reestablish situational awareness.

Generally speaking, the more you run, the more you increase your chances of dying from something other than the torpedo you are evading. Use only enough to get away, with the following exception. If someone really has the drop on you, and you want to get out, then stay on a fast evading course, to "clear datum" and make sure you don't stop until you are out of range, but if you want to stay engaged, don't go running around aimlessly.

For the FFG's, for LWAMI and stock the plan is more or less the same, clear datum at about 90-130 degrees at max speed with the Nixie streamed. If you are facing more than one torpedo or wakehomers, then your situation is much more serious. For acoustic homing torpedoes, you have to hope you can clear the datum. Wakehomers can be avoided easily by the FFG if you are at 5kts or under... sprint at an angle for some distance and then cut to 5kts.

Cheers,
David

Fitz62STG · 06-09-06, 05:51 PM

My best advice would be "LOOK, LISTEN, and FEEL". Who did it come from? If you don't have track on the launching platform mark a bearing and evade. Pop a couple of countermeasures go above or below the layer (if present). But, the biggest thing is recognizing range (which can be vary hard). If it's close you should have track on target already. Assuming you are in a 688 or SW class. Operator recognition is key. I all else fails go for - hear it (start evasion), check what bearing it is coming from ( redirect your evasion ), pop some countermeasures and alter depth.

Depending where you are at depends on the tactics you utilize.

sonar732 · 06-09-06, 10:50 PM

I would utilize a combination of tactics. First, assign the tracker to the fish, then go deep below the layer, mark on the map the general location of the fish. Launch 2 UUV's, one above and one below the layer. Steer one towards the location in the layer detection commenced, and have one the same course as yours. Do a few small course changes to check NB very carefully for a faint OPFOR tonal. I wouldn't launch the countermeasures unless you know for sure that the weapon is coming for you. All this does is give the OPFOR a location of where you were, that you were spooked by his fish, and he can fire a spread on either side of the cm's to cover datum.

Wildcat · 06-23-06, 01:27 PM

In this case the torpedoes were shot so distantly that their bearings from the launcher were drastically different from his actual bearing from me, I figured this was the case when I detected the torpedoes in a different area than I expected his sub to be so I didn't countershoot. He just launched from 30+ km away and let the torpedoes search by themselves.

I won't play multiplayer anymore because of tactics like that. Just spoils the fun. More interesting to play against the AI even if it's not as 'smart'.

Bellman · 06-23-06, 09:45 PM

The smartness of the human host is merely in choosing a scenario in which he is very familiar with the area of dispersion of
'randomised' starting positions.

How often, in sub v sub MP, do you find 'mine host' has a choice position behind a small island from which to launch his 'exploritary' torps into the blue water where you sit. Such cynical techniques, and there are many more, are driving many like Wildcat away from MP.

It would be entirely possible and good practise to randomise the allocation of free for all submarine slot allocations in the pre-launch room.
Nothing worse than devoting two hours to beeing a 'mark' but when this and other 'setups' are repeated incessantly,
you have to wonder whether such MP is a waste of time !!

Fair play and a level playing field are concepts foreign to many MP players. To some extent this corruption is more prevalent in fleets where the drive for promotion points blinkers good sportsmanship.

LuftWolf · 06-24-06, 05:02 AM

Generally speaking, I blame the mission designers and the players both...

OKO is a shining example of someone who is both a great MP mission designer and a truly disciplined player.

I've always had a good time playing 1) with OKO, 2) on OKO's MP maps/missions.

Ditto for Molon Labe.

Cheers,
David

Nexus7 · 06-24-06, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildcat

I won't play multiplayer anymore because of tactics like that. Just spoils the fun. More interesting to play against the AI even if it's not as 'smart'.

When I was active within the Seawolves I used to have a lot of MP games. But very rarely someone came up with such poor way to play (maybe never).
If you use to play within a community you don't want to lower your reputation to zero, and so "miss" the interesting events...

micky1up · 06-30-06, 07:44 AM

best thing to do depends on the torpedo if its a torp that uses doppler to track then u need to slow down (dont know if this is simulated in the game im talking from xp) put the torp at relative 120 degrees change depth accross the layer if you have one and speed up drop counter messures

LuftWolf · 06-30-06, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micky1up

best thing to do depends on the torpedo if its a torp that uses doppler to track then u need to slow down (dont know if this is simulated in the game im talking from xp) put the torp at relative 120 degrees change depth accross the layer if you have one and speed up drop counter messures

Amizaur is currently working on torpedo sensors for LWAMI4, and the doppler tracking for torpedoes is something we are seriously looking at implimenting... in fact, to some degree, this is hardcoded into DW, but the stock database doesn't take advantage of it.

So, in short, we hope to have this aspect of the torpedo sensors modelled in the next version of the mod we are working on.

micky1up · 07-02-06, 02:08 PM

another wish list is more information from the weapons which you do get in real life such as the weapon held solutuion on the target(really usefull) weather the weapon is homing when the fuse arms and when the weapon thinks its tracking a decoy as it stands the fire control area is the weak area of the game unfortunatley this is the most important area

06-04-06, 10:37 AM	#1
Enigma The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: At comms depth, obviously. Posts: 1,476 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Torpedo in the water! .....What do you do? just curious to get an idea of what you guys normally do as an evasive tactic when fired upon.... __________________ "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

06-04-06, 03:18 PM	#3
FERdeBOER XO Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 431 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 1	Therea are several tactics. i.e: you can read the Seawolves Bluebook (in download section of www.subguru.com) and ther's a section about that. There's no a "universal" question about this, and after many tries and visits to the bottom, you will find your way. I can say mine to you: is not very pollished, because I'm not an expert (even advanced), but many times works. First, don't panic. Look the torp on your sonar screen. If is faint or you can't hear it, be calm, it's far. If you can see it clearly, is close, but not panic yet. Look the movement, if the signal is moving, probably is not going to your direction, so the better thing to do is remain quiet and, if you judge is nedded, set course to opposite direction (because maybe when the torp becomes active, can catch you). If the signal remains still... well, the torp is on your direction and very probably is closing. You can begin to panic Now begins the personal way to evade. I've read about launching active or passive decoys depending if the torpedo is active or passive, but I'm not feel confindent with that. My first move when I'm sure the torp is heading to my sub and it has possibilities (you will know that with practise), is manouevering my sub with the torp on a 45º angle of my stern, acceletare (but not to flank yet) and launch the two types of countermeasures on the opposite depth. After a while, when I'm sure the countermeasures are between the torp and my sub, I make a 90º turn and launch another couple of countermasures in the middle of the turn. Contiune running for a while and then reduce to listen, many times I evaded the torp just with this. If the torp continues behind you, begin to think on more agressive manoeuvers and at more speed... and yes, you can panic Hope this helps. __________________ Hay dos tipos de buques: los submarinos... y los blancos. There are two types of ships: the subs... and the targets.

06-04-06, 03:56 PM	#4
Nexus7 Commander Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 469 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	It depends on witch platform I am driving, and on what platform my opponent is driving. If the opponent drives an Akula and I drive a Seawolf but didn't yet detect him, I am 90% sure he hasn't got me. If I did detect him, the matter becomes more serious. I immediately check the BB sonar. If i see some fat traces the first thing i do, is to assign contact on SA and TA to gain a master asap and I start to worry. Having a master I know if I am already in danger or not, knowing the aquisition range of the ASROCS. If the fishes are close (ASROCS) or in my direction (65cm, adcap...) I fire back immediately. If they're on my direction but not ASROC, if i can i go hide behind some seamount and clear datum. If there are helos or Orions in game, things become more complex... __________________ If you are going through hell... keep going (Winston Churchill)

06-04-06, 11:08 PM	#5
Deadeye313 Bosun Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 61 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	what about for us FFG players? how do we get away? We don't have countermeasures and we would need an island to hide. __________________

06-04-06, 11:43 PM	#6
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	You have the Nixie, which is 85% effective against non-wakehoming torpedoes (at least for one use until you can rig it back in and out again). First of all, countermeasures other than the Nixie should not make torpedoes explode on CM's and that's the way it is in LWAMI so my answer will account for this. I am also assuming you have verified that the torpedoes are actually headed your way, which is a whole different topic. Evading torpedoes not aimed at you is worse than evading late. In stock DW, for subs, set course 180 from the incoming torpedo, and fire two decoys. Repeat this until there are no more torpedoes in the water. For LWAMI, (for LWAMI4, to be released, GO DEEP! most torpedoes lose speed at depth, and some can even be made to exceed max depth and shut down if they are tracking you) I recommend setting course initially 180 from the incoming torpedo and going to flank. Fire a single active decoy, and then another active decoy about 1-2 seconds later. Then turn course 90-130 from the torpedo (using a more acute angle to the torpedo if it is closer, hard left or right rudder to a full reverse course if you believe the torpedo has already acquired your decoys). Then head on until you don't think the torpedo is a threat any more (not pinging you), or you need to slow down and reestablish situational awareness. Generally speaking, the more you run, the more you increase your chances of dying from something other than the torpedo you are evading. Use only enough to get away, with the following exception. If someone really has the drop on you, and you want to get out, then stay on a fast evading course, to "clear datum" and make sure you don't stop until you are out of range, but if you want to stay engaged, don't go running around aimlessly. For the FFG's, for LWAMI and stock the plan is more or less the same, clear datum at about 90-130 degrees at max speed with the Nixie streamed. If you are facing more than one torpedo or wakehomers, then your situation is much more serious. For acoustic homing torpedoes, you have to hope you can clear the datum. Wakehomers can be avoided easily by the FFG if you are at 5kts or under... sprint at an angle for some distance and then cut to 5kts. Cheers, David __________________ LW

06-09-06, 05:51 PM	#7
Fitz62STG Seaman Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 34 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	My best advice would be "LOOK, LISTEN, and FEEL". Who did it come from? If you don't have track on the launching platform mark a bearing and evade. Pop a couple of countermeasures go above or below the layer (if present). But, the biggest thing is recognizing range (which can be vary hard). If it's close you should have track on target already. Assuming you are in a 688 or SW class. Operator recognition is key. I all else fails go for - hear it (start evasion), check what bearing it is coming from ( redirect your evasion ), pop some countermeasures and alter depth. Depending where you are at depends on the tactics you utilize. __________________ SAGIRE CLASSIS DESTRUCTUM

06-09-06, 10:50 PM	#8
sonar732 The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Central MO Posts: 1,562 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I would utilize a combination of tactics. First, assign the tracker to the fish, then go deep below the layer, mark on the map the general location of the fish. Launch 2 UUV's, one above and one below the layer. Steer one towards the location in the layer detection commenced, and have one the same course as yours. Do a few small course changes to check NB very carefully for a faint OPFOR tonal. I wouldn't launch the countermeasures unless you know for sure that the weapon is coming for you. All this does is give the OPFOR a location of where you were, that you were spooked by his fish, and he can fire a spread on either side of the cm's to cover datum.

06-23-06, 01:27 PM	#9
Wildcat Engineer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 215 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	In this case the torpedoes were shot so distantly that their bearings from the launcher were drastically different from his actual bearing from me, I figured this was the case when I detected the torpedoes in a different area than I expected his sub to be so I didn't countershoot. He just launched from 30+ km away and let the torpedoes search by themselves. I won't play multiplayer anymore because of tactics like that. Just spoils the fun. More interesting to play against the AI even if it's not as 'smart'.

06-23-06, 09:45 PM	#10
Bellman Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,945 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	The smartness of the human host is merely in choosing a scenario in which he is very familiar with the area of dispersion of 'randomised' starting positions. How often, in sub v sub MP, do you find 'mine host' has a choice position behind a small island from which to launch his 'exploritary' torps into the blue water where you sit. Such cynical techniques, and there are many more, are driving many like Wildcat away from MP. It would be entirely possible and good practise to randomise the allocation of free for all submarine slot allocations in the pre-launch room. Nothing worse than devoting two hours to beeing a 'mark' but when this and other 'setups' are repeated incessantly, you have to wonder whether such MP is a waste of time !! Fair play and a level playing field are concepts foreign to many MP players. To some extent this corruption is more prevalent in fleets where the drive for promotion points blinkers good sportsmanship. __________________ Liberty, Equality, Fraternity Last edited by Bellman; 06-23-06 at 09:55 PM.

06-24-06, 05:02 AM	#11
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Generally speaking, I blame the mission designers and the players both... OKO is a shining example of someone who is both a great MP mission designer and a truly disciplined player. I've always had a good time playing 1) with OKO, 2) on OKO's MP maps/missions. Ditto for Molon Labe. Cheers, David __________________ LW

06-30-06, 07:44 AM	#13
micky1up Captain Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: helensburgh Posts: 525 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	best thing to do depends on the torpedo if its a torp that uses doppler to track then u need to slow down (dont know if this is simulated in the game im talking from xp) put the torp at relative 120 degrees change depth accross the layer if you have one and speed up drop counter messures

07-02-06, 02:08 PM	#15
micky1up Captain Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: helensburgh Posts: 525 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	another wish list is more information from the weapons which you do get in real life such as the weapon held solutuion on the target(really usefull) weather the weapon is homing when the fuse arms and when the weapon thinks its tracking a decoy as it stands the fire control area is the weak area of the game unfortunatley this is the most important area