Minehunters for the Finnish Navy

Happy Times · 12-20-06, 10:27 AM

Litlle old news but just in case someone is interested.

Quote:

Italian Intermarine S.p.A. chosen as supplier of mine countermeasures vessels for the Finnish Navy

By decision of the Minister of Defence of Finland Seppo Kääriäinen the Italian Intermarine S.p.A. has been chosen as the prime contractor with overall responsibility of mine countermeasures vessels for the Finnish Navy. The combat system for the vessels will be supplied by Intermarine S.p.A's German subcontractor Atlas Elektronik GmbH.

Intermarine S.p.A. will deliver three mine countermeasures vessels, a mine countermeasures information system and a life cycle support and maintenance package (spare parts and special tools and test equipment). The price of the procurement contract is 244.8 M€ authorized by the Parliament in the 2006 national budget. The Finnish Navy will receive the first vessel in 2010 and the last one in 2012. Operational readiness will be achieved by 2015.

The aim of the procurement is to provide the Finnish Navy with an operational mine countermeasures capability so that sea lines of national importance can be secured against mine threats. The vessels are primarily being procured for national tasks. The vessels' integrated mine countermeasures systems can be used to support other governmental authorities in for e.g. in mapping the seabed, under water search and identification operations and in the disposal of under water explosives. The vessels will be EU and NATO interoperable, and, therefore, they will improve Finland's possibilities to participate in international crisis management operations.

The procurement includes an obligation for industrial cooperation (offset). This industrial cooperation includes subcontracts as well as transfers of technology and know-how to the Finnish industry. This ensures that the Finnish industry will be capable of working in partnership with the Finnish Navy in the life cycle reparation, maintenance and modernization of the vessels and combat systems.

Intermarine S.p.A. will build and, for the most part, equip the vessels in its dockyards in Sarzana and La Spezia in northern Italy. The third vessel will be partly equipped by Aker Yards Ltd. in Finland. Insta DefSec Ltd. will take part in the development, installation and integration of the combat system. Patria Systems Ltd. plays an important role in the indirect industrial cooperation. Another 20 domestic companies and research institutes will work as Intermarine S.p.A.'s subcontractors. Most of these companies are SMEs. The Finnish work share will be roughly 96 man years. Over 50% of the vessels' total life cycle cost is estimated to stay in Finland.

Intermarine S.p.A. has delivered mine countermeasure vessels to the Italian, Australian and United States navies among other nations. The Atlas Elektronik GmbH mine countermeasures combat system has also been chosen by Sweden, Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands.

http://www.mil.fi/paaesikunta/artikk...52.dsp#english

Bort · 12-20-06, 03:14 PM

That's a smart looking little ship! At least some countries still belive in the importance of minesweeping...unlike my own.

Perilscope · 12-20-06, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bort

That's a smart looking little ship! At least some countries still belive in the importance of minesweeping...unlike my own.

The USA as a nice fleet of minehunters...

The USA as 12, well at least it's written in the official site of intermarine:
http://www.rodriquez.it/intermarine/minehunters.php

Some more info from naval-technology.com:
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/osprey/

However, considering the size of Italy and the coastline, it's funny to see that they have equal amount of minehunters as the USA. But we need to consider that Italy actually needs it and actively use it. Italy being influential with is Navy around the Mediterranean sea, their support is continuous. Those minesweepers where very active in recent years, like the Kosovo war and elsewhere in the Mediterranean sea.

Godalmighty83 · 12-20-06, 04:26 PM

the uk's minesweepers while very expensive and hugely advanced are so slow i cant help but worry about there usefulness. still a plastic hull has its advangtages.

Bort · 12-20-06, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perilscope

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bort

That's a smart looking little ship! At least some countries still belive in the importance of minesweeping...unlike my own.

The USA as a nice fleet of minehunters...

The USA as 12, well at least it's written in the official site of intermarine:
http://www.rodriquez.it/intermarine/minehunters.php

Some more info from naval-technology.com:
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/osprey/

However, considering the size of Italy and the coastline, it's funny to see that they have equal amount of minehunters as the USA. But we need to consider that Italy actually needs it and actively use it. Italy being influential with is Navy around the Mediterranean sea, their support is continuous. Those minesweepers where very active in recent years, like the Kosovo war and elsewhere in the Mediterranean sea.

I know the US has minesweepers, but as I posted earlier here the USN is trying its best to get rid of them as fast as possible. Mine Warfare has always been and still is being overlooked and underfunded by the USN.

Kapitan_Phillips · 12-20-06, 04:39 PM

The bare concept of Minehunters amuses me.

"Hey look! I found a mi-BOOM"

:rotfl:

bookworm_020 · 12-20-06, 05:42 PM

Australia buit half a dozen new mine sweepers, the Huon class. A couple were to been place in reserve, but they are now used as patrol boats (with all minehunting gear still on board)

Fish · 12-20-06, 05:55 PM

My granddad and his brother both were minehunters in WW II, both skipper on a overhauled fishing trawler. His brother died in the UK due to heart failure in 1944. My granddad, that time, was minesweeping in the river Schelde when the Germans and the Ganadians where battling each other from both sides of the river. The vessel was hit by machinegun fire while the mines exploding.
They drew a line between two vessels to cut of the moored mines and hammer a kangoo on the deck for mines listning for machine sound.
Before he go, he wrote a goodby letter to his wife.
Must have been heavy.

Perilscope · 12-20-06, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bort

I know the US has minesweepers, but as I posted earlier here the USN is trying its best to get rid of them as fast as possible. Mine Warfare has always been and still is being overlooked and underfunded by the USN.

Ooops! I guess I missed that one...
It's ashamed that they want to turn it over to other countries, but on the other hand, we all know the US can produce or even acquire some others real fast in case they need to, but to not have at all, that is a bit ridiculous.

Abraham · 12-21-06, 01:45 AM

Mine Countermeasure Vessels, minesweepers or minehuntgers are real work boats and usually not too appealing vessels.
Somehow the Italians succeeded in designing sexy looking minehunters with nice lines...

Gorduz · 12-21-06, 06:36 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:M352.jpg

I like the look of these

Cpt. Stewker · 12-21-06, 04:35 PM

Well according to this America is not trying to phase out ship-based minesweeping. But trying to get rid of the old and upgrade/build the future ones. Of course our Navy has designed this ship to not just fill a minesweeper role, but like most upcoming US military vehicles, it has to multi-task.

Quote:

U.S. Navy orders a second Trimaran Littoral Combat Ship

December 21, 2006 The U.S. Navy has approved funding for the construction of a second General Dynamics trimaran version of Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) featuring an innovative, high-speed trimaran hull. The 127-meter surface combatant LCS is intended to operate in coastal areas of the globe, and will be fast, highly manoeuvrable and geared to supporting mine detection/elimination, anti-submarine warfare and anti-surface warfare, particularly against small surface craft. The LCS's large flight deck sits higher above the water than any U.S. Navy surface combatant and will support near-simultaneous operation of two SH-60 helicopters or multiple unmanned vehicles. The ultra-stable trimaran hull allows for flight operations in high sea conditions. In addition, the deck is suitable for landing the much-larger H-53 helicopters, should that become a future requirement. The Littoral Combat Ship will have one of the largest usable payload volumes per ton of ship displacement of any U.S. Navy surface combatant afloat today, providing the flexibility to carry out one mission while a separate mission module is in reserve.

The General Dynamics Littoral Combat Ship's open architecture computing environment enables industry's most capable, affordable, non-proprietary solutions to be incorporated into the ship's core mission system. This computing environment, developed by the General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems team, provides a highly flexible information technology backbone that allows "plug and play" integration of both the core systems and the LCS mission modules. It meets Navy open architecture requirements, strictly adheres to published industry standards and facilitates the integration of commercially available products. It allows for future growth and seamlessly integrates domestic and foreign combat components to create a core mission system solution that dramatically lowers acquisition and lifecycle costs.

The General Dynamics Littoral Combat Ship design is based on a proven Austal high-speed trimaran hull that is currently operating at sea. The first trimaran LCS, INDEPENDENCE (LCS 2), is under construction at Austal USA in Mobile, Alabama. The General Dynamics Littoral Combat Ship's open architecture computing environment enables industry's most capable, affordable, non-proprietary solutions to be incorporated into the ship's core mission system. This computing environment, developed by the General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems team, provides a highly flexible information technology backbone that allows "plug and play" integration of both the core systems and the LCS mission modules. It meets Navy open architecture requirements, strictly adheres to published industry standards and facilitates the integration of commercially available products. It allows for future growth and seamlessly integrates domestic and foreign combat components to create a core mission system solution that dramatically lowers acquisition and lifecycle costs.

Bort · 12-21-06, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cpt. Stewker

Well according to this America is not trying to phase out ship-based minesweeping. But trying to get rid of the old and upgrade/build the future ones. Of course our Navy has designed this ship to not just fill a minesweeper role, but like most upcoming US military vehicles, it has to multi-task.

Quote:

U.S. Navy orders a second Trimaran Littoral Combat Ship

December 21, 2006 The U.S. Navy has approved funding for the construction of a second General Dynamics trimaran version of Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) featuring an innovative, high-speed trimaran hull. The 127-meter surface combatant LCS is intended to operate in coastal areas of the globe, and will be fast, highly manoeuvrable and geared to supporting mine detection/elimination, anti-submarine warfare and anti-surface warfare, particularly against small surface craft. The LCS's large flight deck sits higher above the water than any U.S. Navy surface combatant and will support near-simultaneous operation of two SH-60 helicopters or multiple unmanned vehicles. The ultra-stable trimaran hull allows for flight operations in high sea conditions. In addition, the deck is suitable for landing the much-larger H-53 helicopters, should that become a future requirement. The Littoral Combat Ship will have one of the largest usable payload volumes per ton of ship displacement of any U.S. Navy surface combatant afloat today, providing the flexibility to carry out one mission while a separate mission module is in reserve.

The General Dynamics Littoral Combat Ship's open architecture computing environment enables industry's most capable, affordable, non-proprietary solutions to be incorporated into the ship's core mission system. This computing environment, developed by the General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems team, provides a highly flexible information technology backbone that allows "plug and play" integration of both the core systems and the LCS mission modules. It meets Navy open architecture requirements, strictly adheres to published industry standards and facilitates the integration of commercially available products. It allows for future growth and seamlessly integrates domestic and foreign combat components to create a core mission system solution that dramatically lowers acquisition and lifecycle costs.

The General Dynamics Littoral Combat Ship design is based on a proven Austal high-speed trimaran hull that is currently operating at sea. The first trimaran LCS, INDEPENDENCE (LCS 2), is under construction at Austal USA in Mobile, Alabama. The General Dynamics Littoral Combat Ship's open architecture computing environment enables industry's most capable, affordable, non-proprietary solutions to be incorporated into the ship's core mission system. This computing environment, developed by the General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems team, provides a highly flexible information technology backbone that allows "plug and play" integration of both the core systems and the LCS mission modules. It meets Navy open architecture requirements, strictly adheres to published industry standards and facilitates the integration of commercially available products. It allows for future growth and seamlessly integrates domestic and foreign combat components to create a core mission system solution that dramatically lowers acquisition and lifecycle costs.

I'm well aware of the Navys plans to replace MCMs and MHCs with the LCS. The problem is that the Navy is looking to retire the minesweepers well before the replacement comes on line. Add to that the fact that the LCS is still an unproven concept, as are its various modules (IMHO the weakest link of the whole program, and quite possibly the one that may render it a flop at worst and in need of deep revision) especially the minesweeping module. The Navy likes to point out that the LCS can multi task, but they often fail to mention that it can only perform one role at at time, requiring a shipyard period to swap out modules.

Cpt. Stewker · 12-21-06, 06:04 PM

Responce:

1. The first of the replacements is already under construction. This article announces that funding has been approved for a second.

2. The LCS design is based on a proven hull that the manufacturer of the vessels, Austal, has used in a recent ship. The design is new of course but it has run it's paces in the lab and in a real-world environment. Austal also has exstensive experience in other non conventional water craft such as catamaran hulls, which are a close cousin to trimarans.

3. The modules like all new ideas are of course unproven, but so was the submarine or the aircraft carrier, or the Internet and those had people with the same sort of doubts and look how those turned out. In theory the idea of using modules is a quite good one. Sure they may have to make a quick port of call to switch them out but in comparison to a vessel without them which would take months to do the same thing, they are invaluable. And I'm sure that the ships will be able to multi-task quite well within one module. The modules only increase the amount of tasks available they do not limit the ship.

Kapitan_Phillips · 12-22-06, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gorduz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:M352.jpg

I like the look of these

All it needs now to complete the look is a pair of '59 Cadillac fins

12-20-06, 03:14 PM	#2
Bort Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Studying in Atlanta Posts: 919 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	That's a smart looking little ship! At least some countries still belive in the importance of minesweeping...unlike my own. __________________ GT Aerospace

12-20-06, 04:26 PM	#4
Godalmighty83 Sonar Guy Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 398 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	the uk's minesweepers while very expensive and hugely advanced are so slow i cant help but worry about there usefulness. still a plastic hull has its advangtages. __________________ Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?

12-20-06, 04:39 PM	#6
Kapitan_Phillips Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Swansea Posts: 3,903 Downloads: 204 Uploads: 0	The bare concept of Minehunters amuses me. "Hey look! I found a mi-BOOM" :rotfl: __________________ Well, here's another nice mess you've gotten me into.

12-20-06, 05:42 PM	#7
bookworm_020 Navy Seal Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sinking ships off the Australian coast Posts: 5,966 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Australia buit half a dozen new mine sweepers, the Huon class. A couple were to been place in reserve, but they are now used as patrol boats (with all minehunting gear still on board) __________________ "There is always one person in any organization who knows whats going on, That person must be fired"

12-20-06, 05:55 PM	#8
Fish Eternal Patrol Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,923 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	My granddad and his brother both were minehunters in WW II, both skipper on a overhauled fishing trawler. His brother died in the UK due to heart failure in 1944. My granddad, that time, was minesweeping in the river Schelde when the Germans and the Ganadians where battling each other from both sides of the river. The vessel was hit by machinegun fire while the mines exploding. They drew a line between two vessels to cut of the moored mines and hammer a kangoo on the deck for mines listning for machine sound. Before he go, he wrote a goodby letter to his wife. Must have been heavy. Last edited by Fish; 12-22-06 at 10:57 AM.

12-21-06, 01:45 AM	#10
Abraham Eternal Patrol Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,572 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Minehunters for the Finnish Navy Mine Countermeasure Vessels, minesweepers or minehuntgers are real work boats and usually not too appealing vessels. Somehow the Italians succeeded in designing sexy looking minehunters with nice lines... __________________ RIP Abraham

12-21-06, 06:36 AM	#11
Gorduz Engineer Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Norway Posts: 210 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:M352.jpg I like the look of these __________________ 21. MTB skv. Attacks without warning.

12-21-06, 06:04 PM	#14
Cpt. Stewker Planesman Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bozeman, Montana, USA Posts: 192 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Responce: 1. The first of the replacements is already under construction. This article announces that funding has been approved for a second. 2. The LCS design is based on a proven hull that the manufacturer of the vessels, Austal, has used in a recent ship. The design is new of course but it has run it's paces in the lab and in a real-world environment. Austal also has exstensive experience in other non conventional water craft such as catamaran hulls, which are a close cousin to trimarans. 3. The modules like all new ideas are of course unproven, but so was the submarine or the aircraft carrier, or the Internet and those had people with the same sort of doubts and look how those turned out. In theory the idea of using modules is a quite good one. Sure they may have to make a quick port of call to switch them out but in comparison to a vessel without them which would take months to do the same thing, they are invaluable. And I'm sure that the ships will be able to multi-task quite well within one module. The modules only increase the amount of tasks available they do not limit the ship. __________________ Last edited by Cpt. Stewker; 12-21-06 at 06:32 PM.