The split-away crumbs of the hijacked swastika thread

[Dowly]

One question that has been circling in my head for ages.

We all know what Hitler did in WWII. We also know what Stalin did. Why there´s always debate on things like here, the Swastika? Why not debate about the old Soviet flag? Over 15mil people died by Stalin´s hand under that flag.

So, my question is, what makes the others so special over Hitler? Stalin was on the winning side? He only killed his own people? The way the murders were made? Please tell me! Dont get me wrong, I´m not defending Hitler, just curious.

Originally Posted by Dowly

One question that has been circling in my head for ages.

We all know what Hitler did in WWII. We also know what Stalin did. Why there´s always debate on things like here, the Swastika? Why not debate about the old Soviet flag? Over 15mil people died by Stalin´s hand under that flag.

So, my question is, what makes the others so special over Hitler? Stalin was on the winning side? He only killed his own people? The way the murders were made? Please tell me! Dont get me wrong, I´m not defending Hitler, just curious.

Good point Dowly!

Just like one could say that America during WWII was perhaps the most evil by slaughtering 214,000 innocent Japanese with the drop of not one (1) but two (2) atom bombs in just 3 DAYS! No other country in history has sunk or stooped to that level. Especially when America was obviously going to win the war against Japan anyways. It just made the war end a lot quicker for America and some argue that dropping the bomb(s) saved lives. I still doubt that an equal or greater amount of lives were spared by dropping the bomb(s) on Japan. Yes, more American lives were spared, but not lives in gerneral and certainly not innocent lives. Troops are not innocents, they get paid to kill and die for their causes. Also, Japan's civilian leadership was in the plans for trying to end the war and surrendering anyways!


Edit: New information has surfaced...

"Last year, the toll came to 379,776 people who have died directly as a result of the bombs." Posted by meloukhia on June 24, 2006 at "this ain't livin" http://www.meloukhia.net/2006/06/never.html

[Dowly]

SubSerpent: Yes, I´ve been thinking about the possible justifications to drop the bombs. The official statement is that it made the war end more quickly and spare the lives of the US soldiers who would´ve to invade the mainland Japan.

Everyone knew that Japan couldnt hold on for long anymore. IMO, it was a matter of maximum of 1 year, that the Japan would´ve surrendered. I see no point on killing almost 400,000 civilians 'just to end it quickly'. And the bombs are still killing today, the children of the ones that where in Hiroshima or Nagasaki, their grandchildren and so on.

I wonder what would the pilots of those planes have done, if they´d known beforehand how devastating the bombs were. Didnt one of them kill himself shortly after the bombings? Or is it just a rumor?

[stuka1166]

Dowly...

Paul Tibbets was the pilot of the "Enola Gay"...He continued service in the armed forces for many years after dropping the bomb in Aug. 1945. I believe he is still around, there was an interview with him in 2005, where the question was posed...Would you do it again ?? His response..."HELL YES I WOULD!" Charles Sweeney was the pilot of "Bockscar" he passed away in 2004. I am pretty sure the pilots knew the bombs were powerful, but I don't think anyone imagined HOW powerful until they were dropped.

If you ever get the chance to visit the airforce museum in Dayton, Ohio..."Bockscar" the 2nd B-29 to drop an A-Bomb...Is on display, as are models of the 2 bombs...Fatman and Little Boy. The 2nd plane was the instrument that ended the war...Hands down !!

I don't think there was any protest demonstration there, then again, it is at the Wright Patterson AFB.

In any event...It was a rumor that the pilots committed suicide.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by stuka1166

Paul Tibbets was the pilot of the "Enola Gay"...He continued service in the armed forces for many years after dropping the bomb in Aug. 1945. I believe he is still around, there was an interview with him in 2005, where the question was posed...Would you do it again ?? His response..."HELL YES I WOULD!"

Well, what can I say. He´s partly responsible of the deaths of almost 400,000 civilians. Enemy or not, civilians are always civilians. And in this case the bombs were dropped to pure civilian targets. I dont get this kind of warfare.

[HunterICX]

Agreed Dowly,

It was pure on civilians, 400,000 civilians dead.
I know that the japanese soldiers where an hard wall to push down but still it was soldiers against soldiers, what america did was Soldiers VS Civilians.
doesnt matter how much trouble an war gives , Nukes arent the solution.
Its really an Cowardly action to drop horror on civilians , and that pilot saying that he would do that again. well I would drop him in the middle of the japanese population with an billboard on him saying ''I was the one that droped the nuclear bomb right here, and I,m damn proud of doing that'' see if how much fun he will have to confront the people with that one.

I go a step further and call it a terrorist act of America on Japan. The whole point was to instill fear into the enemy to end the war, and to instill fear is to committ terrorism!

Those bright red and blue bars on the flag seem to get more and more faded as the years pass by with America alwyas wiping it's blood stained hands off on it.

[Deputy]

Good grief! Nasty old America waging war on the world's enemies. Shame on us! I think next time any country/continent get's it's butt in a sling, America should just remain neutral and let those countries sort it out themselves. Wave those peace flags at the next invader and see how effective they are.

War is hell and that's as it SHOULD be. And WW2 brought hell to the civilians who used to sit back and watch soldiers kill each other while waving patriotic flags and sending even more young men out to die. I'm happy as can be that civilians are now in the bullseye. Maybe the flag-waving patriots will be less motivated to declare war if they realize THEY could be dead too. Just do all us "terrorist" Americans a favor and DON'T call us or ask us for aid the next time the poop hits the air mover. We're sick of pulling the fat out of the fire for those who turn ungrateful after the war has ended and they are no longer in danger thanks to the USA.

Dep

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Deputy

War is hell and that's as it SHOULD be.
Dep

Then stop crying about the 9/11! It´s war, terrorists vs America, bear with it. And what comes to the neutrality of US, yes you should keep your nose out of peoples businesses.

Last of my OT on this thread, sorry for 'borrowing' the thread.

[Deputy]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Then stop crying about the 9/11! It´s war, terrorists vs America, bear with it. And what comes to the neutrality of US, yes you should keep your nose out of peoples businesses.

Last of my OT on this thread, sorry for 'borrowing' the thread.

Last of my OT....so Finland doesn't want to get involved? Hope you enjoy reading the Koran. If the US and the rest of the Democratic Free world that has the brass balls to stand up against jihadists doesn't win, that's what you'll be worshipping from. But that's okay, America, England, and other Democratic countries don't mind standing up for YOUR rights. BTW...wasn't Finland an ALLY of Germany in WW2?
Sieg Heil.

Dep

[Dowly]

Ok, I lied, this is my last OT.

Finland was never an ally of Germany. Finland and Germany had a pact, Finland gets weapons and men to fight off the Soviets, while Finland allows german troops to attack Soviets from Finland.

You are forgetting something. The oh-so-big&powerfull US lost a war to a little men in pyjamas back in´60s. While under 200,000 finnish troops held back almost 2mil soviet troops backed by over 2000 tanks, artillery and aircraft. Where was US then? Where was US when British were fighting for their lives? Only after US was attacked, it declared war to axis. What would have happened if Pearl Harbor wouldn´t have been attacked?

But can you really say that US has never done anything wrong? Were the A-bombs justified? If that´s the case, 9/11 was too justified. What Hitler did was justified, so was the Stalins executions. If I declare a personal war towards you and shoot you, that would be justified too.

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by Deputy

BTW...wasn't Finland an ALLY of Germany in WW2?
Seig Heil.

Dep

Did you had to put that ''Seig Heil'' under it?
sorry dude but thats low to say.
dont use that word like that, thats offensive

[_Seth_]

Originally Posted by Deputy

Last of my OT....so Finland doesn't want to get involved? Hope you enjoy reading the Koran. If the US and the rest of the Democratic Free world that has the brass balls to stand up against jihadists doesn't win, that's what you'll be worshipping from. But that's okay, America, England, and other Democratic countries don't mind standing up for YOUR rights. BTW...wasn't Finland an ALLY of Germany in WW2?
Seig Heil.

Dep

..I think its spelled "Sieg Heil", not "Seig Heil".... Anyway, the expression "Sieg Heil" is linked direct to the Nazi's. The Swastica is (as we know....) an ancient religious and cultural symbol.......

[Deputy]

Pfffft...big talk from a country that had a pact/treaty/alliance/whatever with the Third Reich. You can be proud...you are right in there with the Soviet Union who also had a pact/treaty/alliance/agreement with Germany.

And before you re-write history, the US did NOT lose the war in Viet Nam. That war was lost AFTER the US had withdrawn. Prior to that time, the US had NOT lost a battle in Viet Nam and the Communists were in full retreat on every front.
If the anti-war peaceniks and Liberals and Liberal media in the US hadn't stabbed the troops in the back, and the government had taken the restraints off the military to use any and all means necessary to win the war, it would have all been over VERY quickly. A few strategically-placed tactical nukes and pappa Ho would have been at the bargaining table in a flash.

I never said the US never did anything wrong. I do not agree with the war in Iraq or the way it was started (the US Congress abdicated their responsibility to declare war with Iraq,and instead just gave the President the "Okey-Doke" to do whatever he pleases). The US has ALWAYS waited until an act of aggression is made against it before going to war. 9/11 was that act of aggression. But the Iraq war has gotten mixed up with agreements made with the worthless UN, and that's why we are over there now. Becasue Iraq violated agreements that were made with the UN with full knowledge that there would be consequences. Of course, the UN is composed of wishy-washy politicains and leftover Communist countries that have reasons to NOT go to war. Just like the appeasement stuff that went on with Chamberlain prior to WW2. Personally, I wish the US would take that Chavez a-hole's advice and kick the UN OUT of the US. Then get the US OUT of the UN. Let them go to Venezuela. It's a worthless organization anyway.

Were the A-Bombs in Japan justified? Damn straight they were. How many Finnish troops would have died to take Japan? NONE. But it was believed, and justly so based on previous engagements, that the Japanese would fight to the death to protect their country. The nukes most likely saved more Japanese lives than they took. They certainly saved a lot of soldier's lives on BOTH sides.

Dep

[Deputy]

Originally Posted by HunterICX

Did you had to put that ''Seig Heil'' under it?
sorry dude but thats low to say.
dont use that word like that, thats offensive

Maybe so. But when you start throwing insults at a person's country, emotions are bound to be stirred up. If you dish it out, you have to be able to take it.

Dep