The Ozone Hole

[STEED]

First I here it's getting bigger and we are all doomed. And now I see on yesterday's news, the hole is closing and should be closed by 2060.

Bloody scientist's make your minds up.

[HunterICX]

How we threat Mother Nature, I'll say sooner or later she is going to take her revenge and we're F*cked.

[SUBMAN1]

There is evidence that the hole is a normal thing since it happens on another planet too I believe - read something about it a while back.

Only difference this time is that we made it way worse with CFC's and we can destroy it that way.

Most countries banned CFC's for refridgerents though so it is less an issue than it once was.

-S

[Camaero]

There is no global warming!!

[Onkel Neal]

I think global warming closed the ozone hole...

Of course the CFC argument doesn't explain why the 'hole' is over Antartica and not Los Angeles. Also, it's not a 'hole', per se. There is less ozone in that area, but it also changes from season to season, apparently dependant on how much sunlight it gets.

[Deamon]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Of course the CFC argument doesn't explain why the 'hole' is over Antartica and not Los Angeles. Also, it's not a 'hole', per se. There is less ozone in that area, but it also changes from season to season, apparently dependant on how much sunlight it gets.

Exactly! It's the sun that builds up the ozon! That's why the ozon layer is less dense in winter than in summer. And CFC can't damage the ozon layer becose it never gets up there so high, becose it's simple more heavier than air and actualy fall to the ground and is being absorbed by the flora to whitch it's very tasty. There was almost no CFC in the ozon layer found and the fact that the ocean is by far the greatest CFC producer should give a the final death blow to the CFC argument. I'm just woundering why the sciantists all around the world have never complained ?

CFC/ozon research is maybe a good argument to get funding. There is fraud in sciance too!

AFAIK global warming happens on all planets in our solar system And is related to the increased illumination of the sun or hell knows to what but not to CFC.

Most measure stations for the temperature are supposed to be to close to urban areas whitch emmits alot of warmth and screws up the measurements so that they appear higher than the actualy temperature. I red somewhere once that the temperature in the oceans has actualy even droped, when i remember correctly. Although the smoke blown in to the atmosphere isn't good for us it reflects alot of light back in to space and actualy counters the warming to some extent.

Deamon

[Camaero]

Science has much fraud. The companies funding the scientists are mostly environmental groups. If the scientists don't produce the results the environmentalists agree with, then no more funding. So guess what the results are? We will all be doomed to global warming with increased hurricanes and coastal flooding. It was not long ago they all claimed we were heading into an ice age and North America would be one giant ice glacier by now. The book "State of Fear" by Michael Chrichton was based on this subject. I liked it. There certainly is something to his theory of there being a constant state of fear in the world. There is ALWAYS SOMETHING that is going to destroy us all unless we change our ways. It bores me. Either the world needs to end already like they keep telling us or they need to shut up!

That's... That's all I have to say about that.

[Skybird]

Location of the hole has something to do with earth rotation. Actually, there are TWO holes, the southern one just is more popular, due to it's bigger size.

No more emitting aggressive gas that kills ozon (and that is not just CFC)has no short term effect, since most of these substance live for very long terms. The "Halbwertszeit" for many of them is 50 years and more. That means even if all emission come to a full stop NOW, the present atmospheric processes would continue at the current pace for decades to come. not too mention that there is nothing like a full stop of emissions in sight. Not even a half stop, or a quarter stop.

That there is today's obervation of the hole being constant or getting a bit closer is no reason to celebrate. A projection of the hole being closed in 2060 is absurd. It could only be a normal fluctuiation, that does not change the general trend.

Following this kind of stuff and debate in book and film, i have stopped discussing with people wether global warming is man-made , or not. It is very clear to me that it IS man-made. More interesting is the discussion of the sources for those views that are still trying to raise doubts so that people believe that we can carry on with business as usual, without changing ourselves. Questioning man as the primary cause for the climatic change, more precisley: it's breathtaking pace (it is happening at a pace that is much faster than anything that science knows of previous climatic changes in Earth's history) in my understanding scientifically is not defendable anymore, since long. So, I do not think too much about the arguments anymore, but the interest groups that especially the clunter-arguments represent. And eventually, if the climate desaster could make a 180° turn and instead of burning us hot and tasty could lead to a weakening Gulf stream (which already has lost over 20% in strength in the last decades) and a new ice age in the northern hemisphere). One thing is very clear, I think: in a hundred years, we will not recognize the earth that we used to know anymore. And the changes will come at a costly price for many living species, and mankind.

[moose1am]

Scientist !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Ozone hole is real and thank god it's vanishing now that we stopped using CFC with Chlorine. For without the Ozone in the upper atmosphere we all would burn up. CFC's once released are very persistent. They are not destroyed but act as a catalyst when reacting with Ozone.

It's a good thing that most people don't live near the poles.

The earth's rotation and it's magnatic field helps deflect a lot of the solar particles and protects the earth.

And Global warming is real! There is not dispute from any educated person that global warming is not real. Only uneducated seem to not understand this fact.

It's also a fact that the recent warming trends are caused by man's activities, especially the burning of hydrocarbon's releasing vast quantities of CO2 into the atmosphere along with the destruction of the tropical forests.

The carbon cycles is tilted today. Carbon that has been locked up in the earth crust has been released back into the atmosphere faster than ever in the past.

The buildup of CO2 gases and other gases in the earth's atmosphere is creating the global warming. This is a natural process. Mankind is part of nature.

Just wish that mankind was smarter and was able to slow this warming down a bit.

The earth has undergone many heating and cooling periods in the past. But back then we didn't have the number of humans that we have today. At least we can't find any evidence of their existence ... yet!

Historical Geology tells us the earth is over 4 billion years old. But that's based on the oldest know Igneous Rocks. Who knows how many time the present igneous rocks have been formed and broken down and reformed!

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by moose1am

And Global warming is real! There is not dispute from any educated person that global warming is not real. Only uneducated seem to not understand this fact.

While I refuse to get into a debate about global warming, I must point out that this statement is inaccurate. There are many "educated" people in the scientific community that do not agree with the Global Warming advocates.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

While I refuse to get into a debate about global warming, I must point out that this statement is inaccurate. There are many "educated" people in the scientific community that do not agree with the Global Warming advocates.

Very true.

My personal opinion is that since the seas don't look as clear and blue as I recall them in my childhood and since the air seems more poluted even in areas oustide of urban centers, we should still do everything we can to clean up as much as possible. It can only help. It's the right direction to take, global warming or not.

[Neutrino 123]

Originally Posted by moose1am

Historical Geology tells us the earth is over 4 billion years old. But that's based on the oldest know Igneous Rocks. Who knows how many time the present igneous rocks have been formed and broken down and reformed!

Actually, there are multiple reasons to believe that the Earth is ~4.6 billion years old. If you are interested, googling "age of Earth" or something similar gives some informative pages.

[Skybird]

While warming an cooling is a phenomenon known in Earth's history, and is expected by scientist to be a natural phenomenon, this is of course with a limit in amplitude and frequency, means: how cold and warm do things get, and how fast is the change taking place. The speed currently is descriobed to be at least a hundred times faster than it ever was the case before. And this without doubt is man's share. To what temperature spikes up or down the thing will lead remains to be seen, but estimations so far also indicate that such extremes as we need to expect hardly have been a normal event in past ages. Plus the many other biospheric indicators that tell their own stories.

The counterarguments or doubts of scientists that question a relation to man'S activity, since years imo are motivated by the special interests the institutions that pay their fees represent. One should not expect a industry-payed study to com e to a conclusion that the indiustry needs to chnage a lot of things, and quickly. But in recent three years there have been I think three huge longterm studies that most agree upon to leave no doubt about the human factor, and that the temperature chnages we need to expect will change this planet and our life drastically.

BTW, CFC have not been stopped from emission - they have been reduced only. And as a matter of fact, the "stabilization" of Ozon in the atmosphere is lagging behind expectations of scientist. This may be becasue currently sun activity is low, but is needed for the creation of Ozon in the atmosphere.

[tycho102]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

My personal opinion is that since the seas don't look as clear and blue as I recall them in my childhood and since the air seems more poluted even in areas oustide of urban centers, we should still do everything we can to clean up as much as possible. It can only help. It's the right direction to take, global warming or not.

Bloody hell. I'm going to have to agree with you, again.

Regardless of oceanic carbon-dioxide saturation, global warming, selective deforestation of the South American rainforests, Channel #5 being harvested from minks, and every other left-wing environmentalist whackjob fantasy that is out there.

I want us on nuclear energy. I want reprocessed nuclear cores. I do not want them buried in salt mines, I want the damn thing stripped of it's plutonium and uranium, and stuffed right back into fast-integral reactors. I want localized nuclear power plants (i.e. each state produces their own power) to cut down on resistive transmission losses. I want cars running on hydrogen, produced on-site at the refilling stations. I want out current oil pipelines carring fresh water from nuclear desalination plants located on the coasts.

And I want an national initative to do it within 6 years. Not 2020. I want 200 new breeder and depletion reactors built by 2012. Everyone listened to Kennedy when he wanted to go to the moon. That's the kind of initative I want to free us from petroleum -- foreign petroleum to be specific.

As an indirect benefit to going nuclear/hydrogen, our carbon-dioxide, methane, and sulfur emissions will drop. All these environmentalist pacifists will get exactly what they are wanting -- the Kyoto protocol implemented. We will still need refineries to process things like wax and asphalt, as well as various oils and kerosene. The oil companies aren't going to go out of business, they are just going to have to invest in a different energy production process. Which probably scares the Living Bejesus out of all those old coots, which is why they routinely buy-out any energy company that could threaten their business model.

It's a wicked cycle, this energy transport system.