realism settings?

[HMCS]

I notice that the two realism settings -

"manual targeting" and "no weapon officer assistance" seem kind of similar.

What's the difference? I tried the manual targeting, but found it too confusing.

[kiwi_2005]

With no weapon officer. if you need help you click on the WO tabs (3) and he'll identifiy target and solution. the 3rd is if you want to him to fire. Its the easy way of doing the TDC data. But theres an easier way which i avoid like the plaque and thats when manual targetting is off. What happens is wheneva you point the scope at a ship all data comes up automatically. AVOID. It kills the realism.

I f you dont want manual but want TDC updated. Have manual targetting on and WO help on. When you point the scope or UZO your still have to use the WO tabs to get the TDC updated. Nothing will show up otherwise.

There are some good tutorials though on full manual targetting.

[kiwi_2005]

I meant this way.

Manual target system ON
NoWeaponOfficer Help OFF

[HMCS]

thanks.

[Yskonyn]

I am a bit confused here: Does setting the No Weapons Officer Assist to ON entirely disable the WO at all? It's a moderate Realism factor (6%) as far as the game is concerned, but it's a bit awkward, because the sim lets you simulate being a commander on a sub, so wouldn't it be not more than logical to have assistance of your WO?
I mean its his job isn't it, so why the 6 percent penalty?

Also the No Map Contact Update of a big 12% is something that confuses me. Wouldn't the crew make notes of any contact they have on the navmap for the big picture, tactically wise? Could someone please shed some light into this, wether the 12% is reasonable?

[Trav_R]

As far as the 6% penalty for having WO assistance, in my opinion it's reasonable. If you are looking through the scope or UZO, and have the WO calculate a solution, you are essentially saying "Hey pal, come take a look at this ship here, and then go and put all that information into the TDC, and get it all set up for me so I can push the red button."

You're not doing anything as a captain besides getting your boat in position and launching. With the full manual, you don't have to do all the plotting and calculating and crap. You can just do the notepad method, which is basically what captains did. Nice and quick and easy, and it's plenty accurate at close range, which is the way it was mostly done anyway.

As for the 12% penalty for the map updates, I understand your question. I would think that my Nav officer would be good for something besides weather reports and giving the depth under keel and all that. But, I do understand the penalty as well. I've never used the updates, so I don't know exactly how they work, but aren't they constantly updated to have up to the minute information? If so, that would way kill the realism. Even if you are on the surface and have a bridge watch, it still takes a few good minutes of looking around to get an idea of the tactical situation, location of escorts, big targets and all that.

With map updates on, just a quick look at the Nav map will give you all of this information. It would make the game way easier. With those updates off, you never can be sure that you're alone out there on the ocean. You can take a quick look around with the scope before you surface, but that doesn't mean that you didn't miss that destroyer who's coming right at you to meet you once you do surface. Believe me, 12% is pretty reasonable for having those updates on.

[Yskonyn]

OK fair enough, but just to get one thing straight: the WO assist option set to OFF doesn't disable your WO functions entirely? It still enables him to make calculations if you order him to? If he's still here then I can see why it's 6%. The option should then indeed be set to OFF if you want to play realistically.

As for the updates, yes indeed they are constantly updated, however only if one of the sensors/crew still detects the ship.
If your sensor/crew doesn't see the contact then it won't show on the navmap as far as I know. It's not like the 'always show truth' option in the Sub Command/Dangerous Waters games. Please correct me if I am wrong here. What do you say then? 12% still reasonable?

[Trav_R]

As far as the weapons officer goes, if you have his assistance disabled he will no longer be able to provide target information or a solution for you. The only use I've seen for a weapons officer is to have him call out when tubes are opened, and torpedoes launched, but that is of little use. Sometimes if I want those confirmations I'll stick my navigator in that position for about 5 minutes, then take him back out.

Back to the nav map updates, I still think it's pretty fair. Say you are submerged, trying to evade a couple escorts. The only knowledge you would really have of course is the hydrophone, and that is pretty limited. It can of course detect all of the escorts that are after you (except those that are ahead and behind) but it wouldn't be able to keep track of them all at once. At the very best, with a skilled operator constantly turning the hydrophone around and listening to each escort for a few seconds, you would get an update on each escort's bearing, estimated speed, estimated range, and estimated guess of whether it's closing or moving away. But, you would only be able to get those updates one at a time, and probably about 20 seconds apart, as it takes a bit to turn the hydrophone and a little bit of listening to determine all these things, and even then it's only an estimate.

This would mean that a real captain would have to keep all this information in his head, and try to visualize the constantly changing situation. There would be no point in plotting it out on a piece of paper as the situation would constantly be changing. Within two minutes, all the escorts would be at different bearings doing different things than they were before, and your little map with all the points plotted on it would be useless again. Nope, it would all have to be kept in your head. This is why, with the real map updates option, you have to stay at the hydrophone yourself and constantly check on all the escorts yourself. It's not what a real captain would do, he'd have his sonarman handle that, but in the game your sonarman only gives detailed information on the closest escort. So, you have to do it yourself.

It's not like it makes it horribly difficult or anything, you shouldn't be all that worried about it. It's pretty fun sitting there listening, trying to figure out what they're all doing and react to them properly. 90% of the time you're only really up against one escort anyway, so you mainly just turn your stern to him and quietly try to move away. Not too bad.

[Yskonyn]

Ah I see, now you've convinced me.
Thanks for the heads up.
Knowing the technics behind it makes a lot of things more clear. Indeed fair, so it seems.
Thanks again.