About start in subpen again...

[Rubini]

Hi guys,

I'm working over HT mod again and just finishing some news features like the historical approach to start in subpens. I just read infos in uboat.net and other uboats sites to define the correct dates when the subpens becomes available but I don't find any info about La Spezia. Please someone here can help me with infos on La Spezia subpens? They really exist at La Spezia?

Thanks,

Rubini.

[Scire]

Hi Rubini,

as pheraps you know i'm currently in La Spezia where i'm an Officier of the Italian Military Navy since 1989....
My grandfather was here too during WW2 as officer of the 10à MAS navy force and even as submarines crew member.
By that i can stat that in La Spezia there never been any kind of sub pens and submarines was (and currently are) ever simply docked to a wharf.

Actual view of La Spezia arsenal:

[Happy Times]

Wow, cool pictures! Sir

[rulle34]

Now we can talk about visualising information
Great pics

[Rubini]

Scirè,



Rubini.

[Rubini]

Scirè,

Thanks for all these infos. We enjoyed your pics and I'm astonished to know a bit more about you! Two days ago I "finished" to modify the changes in dates for departure purposes on HT mod. I look in a dozen of sites and only find infos about french ports. Then I decided to left La Spezia as it is in the game. But now you inspire me: I will even change La Spezia harbour shape to another without subpens for the next HT release!
By the way, do you know if in La Spezia the germans uboats leave the harbour with band and nurses too? I'm asking because only a few shapes are possible and the majority don't have band&nurses....



Rubini.

[Scire]

Originally Posted by Rubini

Scirè,

(...)
By the way, do you know if in La Spezia the germans uboats leave the harbour with band and nurses too? I'm asking because only a few shapes are possible and the majority don't have band&nurses....



Rubini.

Rubini,

there are some historical facts about La Spezia wich i think of great interest for you.
First of all La Spezia was the base of Decima Flottiglia MAS a special underwater warfare unit (very famous for the attacks of Gibraltar and Alessandria conducted with human manned torpedoes released by submarines....) and for this reason all the activities in the base was strictly conducted under a great reservation. In the base was still present the U Boats of 29th Flottilla and they choose the placement for this (and others) reasons too.
At the time of the Italian armistice (8 September 1943) the Decima Flottiglia Mas leaded by Com.te Borghese choose to remain faith to the German allied and fight against the AngloAmerican forces (the choice was lead by the fact they did not want to betray the alliance with the Germany saving the honor of the native land) so ,La Spezia remaining a German base until the 24 April 1945 when the American forces gain the base (date to take in consideration for SH3 bases dates!) During this time the German U Boats and the MAS (fast torpedo boats) of the Decima MAS given hard times tothe allied convoys (should be great to recreate the Decima MAS torpedo boats operating from La Spezia and Trieste).
Due to the fact that after 8 Sept.1944 la Spezia was a sort of axis "enclave" the base was surrounded by lots of italian resistance members that spied on every movement to the inside of the base communicating it to the oss, all the activities and the boat and submarines starts were conducted strictly on night times (and my grandfathers report me with no lights at all!)
With great disappointment of the german and italian sailors no band and nurses at La Spezia!!
I will provide the exact placement of the harbour structure wich is currently a little off in SH3.

.

The harbour is located on the upper left corner of the gulf.
The green zones on the chart are the structure of the 1940/45 military base. Black line are the anti sub nets. No minefields was reported ever.

For any other question just ask me

[Marhkimov]

Oh yay! My port (in game) is La Spezia too, and I love it.

Thumbs up for wanting to make it perfect!

Yay, La Spezia is getting a makeover!

[Marhkimov]

Scirè, I have a question, but it is not too related... I hope you don't mind...


Is the water in the mediterranean always like this picture?



If that is how it really looks, then I don't think our mediterranean water is "tropical" enough. This is how it currently looks:



I want to make it more "tropical," but I don't know if that will be unrealistic or not.

[Rubini]

Scirè,

Thanks for the info again. About the dates, as we know the 29th flotilla was transferred for Toulon and I think that is good as it is in the game. What you are speaking is about maintain La Spezia as an Italian/German base until 1945. This is possible and easy to do but as a German base (SH3 makes Italian an allied nation after the armistice). So is this correct?
Do you know if La Spezia still support some uboat after the transfer of the 29th for Toulon?

For the harbour position, I understand that it is where you write "LaSpezia" on the map, right? And the city is behind the harbour, right? If so I will modify these things and post to you for you make some suggestions.




marhkimov,

I like your colors for Mediterranen sea. But you know, I'm timid about colors because I'm a color blind guy...


Rubini.

[Scire]

Originally Posted by marhkimov

Scirè, I have a question, but it is not too related... I hope you don't mind...

(......)
I want to make it more "tropical," but I don't know if that will be unrealistic or not.

Hi Marhkimov,

no problem about the question!

my answer is yes, the Meds looks for the most part of the seasons (a little bit darker in winter) as you can see in the pictures.
Meds waters have a greenish aspect even in the most deep zones (as in the Italy's West coast much deeper than the East ones wich is even more "greeny")
By my activity (i'm a "Frogman" of the Italian Navy Special Forces -"COMSUBIN"-) i can tell you that the underwater visibility cames to a poor five meters even in a deep range from surface to 20 meters (we always make undervaters couple navigation and/or hull attack training fixed with a rope .
Here some photos of us where you can see the colour and the underwater visibilitiy of the Meds.

[Scire]

Originally Posted by Rubini

Scirè,

Thanks for the info again. About the dates, as we know the 29th flotilla was transferred for Toulon and I think that is good as it is in the game. What you are speaking is about maintain La Spezia as an Italian/German base until 1945. This is possible and easy to do but as a German base (SH3 makes Italian an allied nation after the armistice). So is this correct?
Do you know if La Spezia still support some uboat after the transfer of the 29th for Toulon?

For the harbour position, I understand that it is where you write "LaSpezia" on the map, right? And the city is behind the harbour, right? If so I will modify these things and post to you for you make some suggestions.



Rubini.

Hi Rubini

All correct!

After the armistice La Spezia was ever a "German Base" controlled by the Decima MAS Flottilla (with a German command structure on it) and even the 29th Flottilla was transferred to Toulon it is historically true that the U Boats had support on it until the end of war.
Since that Decima MAS was a part of RSI (Italian Social Republic wich were a provisional government still allied with Germany) and la Spezia under it former control it could be great to create a new "country" in the roster (as for Free Franch) with only torpedo boats units (perfect will be to recreate the italian MAS but the schnellboote could be fine for the pourpouse) and make it German allied until the end of war (and maybe add to RSI the other two bases of Trieste and Pola). A great historical item!

Here some historical pictures of U410 docked at la Spezia on August 1943





Regarding the position you're right with the harbour over the word "La Spezia" and the city behind it.

Ask me for all!

Scirè

[Rubini]

Thanks Scirè,

I will do all. The new country will be called RSI and La spezia, Trieste and Pola will be with them. I guess that Pola and Trieste will be with RSI until the finished of the war, right? I will post the files to you for suggestions and corrections in 2 days, ok?

Rubini.

[jaxa]

Scire, fantastic photos!
I didn't know you are "frogman", it's very interesting. Italian "frogmen" were the most succesful special maritime forces during 2nd WW. I've read a lot about Italian human torpedos and their actions.
Do you hear about Polish Navy "frogmen" unit - Formoza?

[Marhkimov]

Thanks for the pictures Scirè. You guys can have your thread back now. I'll try to mod my sea to look like that; even underwater.


It's too bad that Rubini won't be able to see it...