(REQUEST) Nisshin Seaplane Tender

[Faith]

(Nisshin at dawn/dusk, sometime in 1942)




From Wikipedia (consulted at 10:00 on 21/05/2018)

• During the 1930s, the Imperial Japanese Navy made increasing use of naval aviation as scouts for its cruiser and destroyer squadrons. Due to restrictions imposed by the Washington Naval Treaty and London Naval Treaty, the number of aircraft carriers was strictly regulated; however, there was no limitation as to seaplane tenders. Nisshin was a follow-on to the purpose-built seaplane tender design begun with the Chitose-class and was ordered by the Imperial Japanese Navy under the 3rd Naval Armaments Supplement Programme of 1937.

• Nisshin was laid down on 2 November 1938 and launched on 30 November 1939 at Kure Naval Arsenal. Her completion was delayed by design changes and the onset of the Pacific War and was not commissioned until 27 February 1942. Shortly after commissioning, on 20 March 1942 Nisshin was assigned to Vice Admiral Teruhisa Komatsu’s IJN 6th Fleet together with the seaplane tender Chiyoda and the auxiliary cruiser Aikoku Maru, and participated in training exercises in the Inland Sea, during which time she recovered a miniature submarine which had been lost by Chiyoda.[5]

• During the Battle of Midway, Nisshin was part of Main Body of the Japanese fleet. For this operation, she carried twelve Type A Kō-hyōteki-class submarines, which were intended to be stationed at Kure Atoll, which was to be seized as a seaplane base for operations against Midway Atoll. The operation was cancelled on the loss of the Japanese aircraft carriers during the Battle of Midway, and Nisshin returned to Hashirajima with her submarines on 14 June without having seen combat.[5]

• From September 1942, Nisshin was at Kavieng in the Solomon Islands, where she was assigned to a number of Tokyo Express high speed transport runs to Guadalcanal through the end of November. These missions included the transport of artillery used during the Battle of Cape Esperance. On 28 September, she narrowly missed an attack by USS Sculpin (SS-191) east of the island of Kokoda. In October, she was damaged during an attack by an American dive bomber north of Tassafaronga. She was unloading at Tassafaronga during a subsequent run on 12 October when the Battle of Cape Esperance began, but was able with withdraw without engaging in combat. and in November she was withdrawn to Truk.[5]

• During the first half of 1943, Nisshin continued to be used primarily as a fast transport between the Japanese home islands and Truk and Rabaul. During a refit at Kure in February 1943, an additional 18 Type 97 25 mm AA guns were installed.[5]

• With the start of the large-scale Allied offensive in June 1943 against Japanese-occupied New Guinea and the Solomon Islands, Nisshin rushed troop reinforcements from Yokosuka to Bougainville Island. Loaded with 630 soldiers, 22 light tanks, ammunition and food supplies, she stopped at Truk and on 22 July, escorted by three destroyers, Nisshin attempted to run Bougainville Strait towards Buin. The convoy was attacked at 13:45 approximately 40 nautical miles southwest of Buin by three waves of American bombers, including 34 Douglas SBD Dauntless and twelve Consolidated B-24 Liberator bombers. Nisshin was able to evade the B-24s, working up to 34 knots, but was hit by four 227-kilogram and two 454-kilogram bombs dropped by the dive bombers during the second and third strikes, which exploded her aviation fuel stores and caused many casualties among the crowded soldiers. Severely damaged, Nisshin capsized to starboard and sank some fourteen minutes after the start of the air raid. Of the 1263 on board at the time (633 crewmen and 630 embarked troops), only 178 were rescued by the escorting destroyers, their efforts severely hampered by renewed air attacks.

• On 10 September 1943, Nisshin was struck from the navy list .[6]

(Shipbucket version of IJN Nisshin, as she was commisionned)








(pixelated line drawing of IJN Nisshin as she appeared when commisionned)




The japanese Wikipedia page has a few more details. For instance, an upgraded version of Nisshin's diesels were proposed for the Yamato class, but the prototype proved a failure, and so the battleships used boilers instead.
Apart from those two pages, little additionnal information can be found.

Important detail : unlike her cousins, Nisshin had two catapults during her career, while the others carried four.

Characteristics (consulted on Wikipedia at 10:00 on 21/05/2018)

Displacement:

• 11,317 long tons (11,499 t) (standard)
• 12,500 long tons (12,700 t) (full load)

Length:

• 192.5 m (631 ft 7 in) OA
• 174 m (570 ft 10 in) P-P

Beam: 19.71 m (64 ft 8 in) Draft: 7.0 m (23 ft 0 in) Installed power: 47,000 shp (35,000 kW) Propulsion:

• 2 × geared steam turbines
• 2 × shafts

Speed: 28 kn (52 km/h; 32 mph) Complement: 633 (in 1943) Armament:

• 6 × 14 cm/50 3rd Year Type naval guns
• 18 × Type 96 25 mm AA guns
• 700 naval mines

Aircraft carried: 25 × floatplanes Aviation facilities: 2 × aircraft catapults




Her career can be found in greater detail at:
http://www.combinedfleet.com/Nisshin.htm
http://www.combinedfleet.com/atully10.htm (detailed article of her sinking)

From my outsider's perspective on modeling, the ship could be made using the existing ingame Chitose. I hope a modder takes an interest in this ship.





Here is a superb 1/200 scale Nisshin, which can be found on:
http://i-am-modelist.com/2013/05/23/ijn-nisshin-3/
http://i-am-modelist.com/2013/05/08/ijn-nisshin/
It shows in great detail the seaplane arrangements and the deck clutter.

[propbeanie]

... and to further cement the seed of an idea into someone else's mind (I am not skilled to understand 3D), here are some comparisons with an FotRSU ship:

The Nisshin from Wikipedia:



The Chitose, same source, image reversed for the comparison

Note that the Chitose has its old "main" guns changed to AA... Now, in the game, the Chitose:


I suppose I could have reversed it also... oh well. maybe later - Edit: finally did that...

Some surgery would be required, but you could get very close with this as a starting point...


overhead from the aft

overhead from the bow

[Faith]

To further show the differences between the Chitose class and the Nisshin, here are two pictures from my attempt to create a frankenboat, using the turrets from the recent Katori class mod (which pretty much are identical to the Nisshin's). You can see how the foredeck is supposed to be longer.

[propbeanie]

Looking at the pictures, the front turret would be a bit in front of the first AA position on the Chitose deck, the 2nd AA and its little "overhang" mount goes away, and most of that "blob" with the smaller AA above that (20mm??) gets cut back, and the main deck house then is cut back a bit, making room for the 2nd main deck gun turret, with a 3rd one then on the 2nd level... correct?... stack has to get moved back (what'd they do, side exhaust??), maybe some slight changes to the hanger deck area, and you've about got it... but don't forget the mini-subs on deck, along with the sea planes!...

Just a little background on the ship:
http://www.combinedfleet.com/Nisshin.htm
http://www.combinedfleet.com/atully10.htm
http://www.combinedfleet.com/cvlist.htm
why they put the Seaplane Tenders in with the carriers, I dunno, but... note that the Mizuho is also similar, though with a hangerdeck area that is quite a bit different in the few pictures you can find of it. All three of them appear to be different ships in all of their photos, and gun changes appear to happen every time they docked... The Akitsushima appears to be quite a bit different from the others, but who knows??...

Now, come on Faith, you got further with your edits than I ever did... you can do this! But, maybe we really should call on Zuikaku or noshiro?...

[Faith]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Looking at the pictures, the front turret would be a bit in front of the first AA position on the Chitose deck, the 2nd AA and its little "overhang" mount goes away, and most of that "blob" with the smaller AA above that (20mm??) gets cut back, and the main deck house then is cut back a bit, making room for the 2nd main deck gun turret, with a 3rd one then on the 2nd level... correct?... stack has to get moved back (what'd they do, side exhaust??), maybe some slight changes to the hanger deck area, and you've about got it... but don't forget the mini-subs on deck, along with the sea planes!...

Just a little background on the ship:
http://www.combinedfleet.com/Nisshin.htm
http://www.combinedfleet.com/atully10.htm
http://www.combinedfleet.com/cvlist.htm
why they put the Seaplane Tenders in with the carriers, I dunno, but... note that the Mizuho is also similar, though with a hangerdeck area that is quite a bit different in the few pictures you can find of it. All three of them appear to be different ships in all of their photos, and gun changes appear to happen every time they docked... The Akitsushima appears to be quite a bit different from the others, but who knows??...

Now, come on Faith, you got further with your edits than I ever did... you can do this! But, maybe we really should call on Zuikaku or noshiro?...

Well, I can easily make a stand in Mizuho without it's open work station. But the ship disappeared in May 1942, without doing anything major. I don't think anyone would want it.
As for Akitsushima, it's a completely different craft, far smaller than the other seaplane tenders. It would require a dedicated model.
Maybe I should try my hand at a merchant based seaplane tender... Once I stop crashing Silent3D from sheer overload

Late to the party as usual .

I was looking for info about Nisshin because I wanted to convert the stock Chitose, and found this not so old (by SH4 standards) thread while Googling.

I'm going to give it a try. Perhaps should I post some screenshots in a new thread, or simply continue with this one?

[propbeanie]

I'd do another thread so that folks see your work, and that the thread has your name on it, maybe linking to this one as "inspiration", if you will. This reminded me to flip the image of the in-game Chitose to face left... In the meantime, to me, it looks like the same hull, a very similar bridge, but that it is actually moved back a bit on the deck, to allow room for the additional gun position on the bow, sort of like the Mogami versus the Tone. But that might just be an "angle of the photo" kind of illusion. Is the stack "wrapped" by the port and starboard forward cranes? Almost like an aircraft carrier, with the exhaust to the sides?... I can't tell from either the real photos, nor the plastic model, but it almost looks like it's in the crane vertical in that first close-up image of the model. You can see the exhaust in the real-life pix, but can't tell exactly where it's coming from...

I think the exhausts are those rounded parts in the plastic model Faith posted :




Yes , hull seems basically the same as Chitose and Chiyoda, and also Mizuho. But I found out that Chitose SH4 model had wrong dimensions (some 9m shorter), so I had to resize it a bit. This makes things harder than expected.

[propbeanie]

Good night, man! How do you do that? You are a 3D kit-bash artist! - Excellent results! Will you be able to devote half of the ship to the Type A Ko Hyoteki?... - I can see the skippers of these ships saying "You want me to do what with ~what~?..."

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Good night, man! How do you do that? You are a 3D kit-bash artist! - Excellent results! Will you be able to devote half of the ship to the Type A Ko Hyoteki?... - I can see the skippers of these ships saying "You want me to do what with ~what~?..."

I guess that Type A Ko Hyoteki is the midget submarine that was in the covered zone of the Chitose . I'm thinking about adding them in a library, so you can select dates through the .eqp file (just like the floatplanes)...

I would also want to learn how to add loadouts to ships, as these ships were very used in the Tokyo Express runs in the Solomons. But this may take a bit longer .

[propbeanie]

s7rikeback has some info on loadouts and setting them up on his web site. Let me see if I can find those... He'll probably beat me to it though, since it is storming in the area, thunder and lightning, and power outages... sigh...

Edit: I don't know if you'll find these useful or not:

Loadout Descriptions.pdf (download link)
Loadouts.pdf (download link)

The first one is CapnScurvy, the second one, I do not know who the author is, but I do remember it...

[s7rikeback]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

s7rikeback has some info on loadouts and setting them up on his web site. Let me see if I can find those... He'll probably beat me to it though, since it is storming in the area, thunder and lightning, and power outages... sigh...

Just checking in...

From a team member with FotrsU
Loadout Description by CapnScurvy

Loadouts are a way of having a unit carry different things, at different times.... determined by the units "Properties" page of the Mission Editor. By having the Mission files use a certain "loadout", you can have a plane carry 2, 500 lb bombs one time, and on another mission, have the same plane carry a torpedo, or carry 6, 200 pounders. The loadout has to be pre setup in both the units .eqp file, and defined in its .cfg file.

Let's take a look at the ATBS_Swordfish plane as an example....open up its .cfg file. You'll find three different loadouts "Named":

[Loadout 1] Name=Torpedo Type=4
[Loadout 2] Name=3x100Kg Bombs Type=2
[Loadout 3] Name=1x250Kg 2x100 Bombs Type=2

These names need to be exact for the three different "Named" loadouts that are found in the planes .eqp file. BUT, first you have to define the "Basic" planes equipment before getting to the extra loadout equipment that's "optional" to be used. Here's the "Basic" equipment that will be carried by the plane if no other optional "loadout" is used:

[Equipment 1] NodeName=B02 LinkName=NULL
[Equipment 2] NodeName=T01 LinkName=SH_Torpedo_Mk13
[Equipment 3] NodeName=B01 LinkName=NULL
[Equipment 4] NodeName=A01 LinkName=20mmSingleAir
[Equipment 5] NodeName=P01 LinkName=Pilot_Plane
[Equipment 6] NodeName=P02 LinkName=Pilot_Plane

All of the above goes into the units basic equipment inventory if no other loadout is used. This is important, because MANY of the stock game planes did not have a "basic" inventory of equipment. No bombs, no bombing! No Machine Gun to fire, the plane just fly's around without a care.

The above has two pilots (P01, P02), linked to their 3D model "Pilot_Plane". It has a machine gun linked to the A01 node, "20mmSingleAir". It has a torpedo in the T01 node position, linked to the 3D model "SH_Torpedo_Mk13". AND, no bombs (NULL) at the two B01, B02 node positions of the .dat model.

Notice the above does not have a "Loadout=" line as the following does. This tells you this is the "Basic" equipment loadout for the plane. It will always have this inventory whenever the plane is called on to appear in-game. ========

In contrast to the "Basic" inventory found in the planes .eqp file, there are three others.....Torpedo; 3x100Kg Bomb; 1x250Kg 2x100 Bombs. Notice the addition of the line "Loadout=Torpedo" below. This is the group of equipment that goes with the "Named" Torpedo loadout group: ;

Torpedo Loadout definition
[Equipment 7] NodeName=B02 LinkName=NULL Loadout=Torpedo
[Equipment 8] NodeName=T01 LinkName=SH_Torpedo_Mk13 Loadout=Torpedo
[Equipment 9] NodeName=B01 LinkName=NULL Loadout=Torpedo
[Equipment 10] NodeName=A01 LinkName=20mmSingleAir Loadout=Torpedo
[Equipment 11] NodeName=P01 LinkName=Pilot_Plane Loadout=Torpedo
[Equipment 12] NodeName=P02 LinkName=Pilot_Plane Loadout=Torpedo

Now you may ask, Why does the Torpedo group look exactly like the "Basic" group? What's the reason for having two?


I'm guessing that the reason was initially the "Basic" didn't carry anything. And since many of the mission files had the "Basic" inventory as the planes equipment "Loadout" already, by having the "Basic" actually have a torpedo, gave the plane one to use without going through the entire Campaign Mission files.

This loadout feature can be used for more than just plane armaments. Look into the Fotrs NDD_Shiratsuyu ship unit .cfg file. You'll find this:
[Loadout 1] Name=Flakversion Type=1

Go to the ships .eqp file and you'll see what the "Flakversion" named group of equipment inventory is. It changes several of the guns to AA Flak guns making it a more defensive ship unit than the "Basic" version. As a mission builder, you decide which version you wish to use, for the situation at hand. So, by having a couple of different "Loadout" groups for those landing craft, you can decide when making your mission to have them load soldiers, trucks, crates, whatever. As long as the group is specifically "Named", and its "linked" to a good 3D model, you can have many different pieces of inventory displayed.

hope this helps.

Thank you both. I've downloaded them and will look at them when I'm finished with the 3D editing.

Well, the loadout worked fine and a couple of midget subs can be selected through the mission editor.


Sorry for the dark tone, the mission I'm using to test the ship is at night.

But I'd like to know how to add simple cargo like you can with the merchant ships: crates, tanks, trucks etc. Apparently they're not loaded through the .eqp file. The cargo ships don't have any nodes or loadout entries in their .eqp and .cfg files, yet loadouts can be added through the mission editor. Is it a special feature of merchant ships? If so, how does the game know where to place them?

Another question:

[Loadout 1]
Name=MidgetSub
Type=1

What does the type do? I put 1 and it worked so I left it, but I've also noted Type=2 entries in other ships.



EDIT: Just as a test, I changed the Nisshin ship type to cargo and the ME now lets me add internal and external cargoes (that was the right term, not loadout). But visually there's no difference: they don't show up.

EDIT2: after a PM by s7rikeback I understood how to set up an external cargo. Unfortunately it seems to work only in merchant ships.

Option 1 Midget Subs version


Option 2 Tokyo Express version