Things that I have learned pt1.

[UKönig]

I have been playing subsim games pretty much from 1985 with 'nintendo's' silent service. Several sub games followed, culminating with the silent hunter series in the mid-late 90s.
I must say the 'silent hunter' series is probably my favorite of the genre.
I started with SH3 back around 2007, so about 2 years after it was first released by ubisoft.
I bought an online copy and downloaded directly from ubisoft.com, for about 10 CAD, back in March of 2012. A steal really, as I would have paid 50$.
Over the last 2 years it has taken over as my favorite pass-time on PC.
I have learned a great deal about the historical events during this confusing time (1939-1945) and how they relate to the sub game, and I have to say, ubisoft has their stuff together.
Things that I have learned
In the early war, 1939-1941, the Escorts and Destroyers have varying levels of skill. If you are facing early british DDs/DEs, they are reasonably good at their anti-submarine jobs. Early american, not so much. Early canadian, also not so much. Reason, early american is not experienced and early canadian has crap equipment.
However, by 1942, all forces have improved their ASW duties, and introduce HK or hunter-killer patrols, whose sole job is to destroy you. Dedicated teams of ships who will wait until you are dead, out of O2, or low on battery power. They will only leave the area if you have been destroyed, or their convoy gets too far away. That gives you your chance. To make the HKs lose interest in you, be as quiet as possible. Dive as deep as you dare. With 100% hull, even a type 7 can handle 220m or more. There are thermal layers. You can dive under these, keep the noise down and hopefully the noise caused by the jet stream (of water) will block the enemy Hydrophone Effect. Staying quiet will not help you against ASDIC. It works by detecting the mass of the sub in water, not the noise it makes. If you are being actively "pinged", you might as well just "floor it" and hope you can make some distance. I have also discovered that if you eliminate most or all of the convoy escorts, the ships in the fleet will scatter. Good luck picking a target out of the resulting mess...
More in part 2...

[UKönig]

Unorthodox tips and tactics
If you are having trouble with aircraft (bombers too) this can work...
Sometimes the little 2cm flak MG is just not powerful enough. Or not enough range, or the aircraft you are going for (B24 liberator, wellington) is too strong. No problem, (little problem), if possible, man the 88mm. The deck gun is the same calibre as the 8.8cm AA guns used on land. They have the range and the firepower to bring down bombers. I've done it. Like bringing an axe down between the shoulder blades of a bird, I blew that bomber to pieces. Not so easy to do, since elevation and range are almost at maximum, but with a bit of skill/luck, it can be done.
Looking for awesome hunting grounds? Try New York harbour.
In the early war, 1939-dec. 1941, the USA is fairly neutral. Which means, if you hold your fire, so will they. If you accidently sink an american, you have to wait about 48 hrs for them to 'get over it', then you can approach safely.
Use this time to scout out the harbors. Ways in, ways out. Protection or defenses. When the war with the US heats up, do not attack NY from the front gates. Go in the back door. Take the north side of long island. Plan your approach during the night. There are a few very shallow points where diving is not advised and since you will be forced on the surface, they can't send bombers to get you, b/c they will be (essentially) bombing their own harbour. There are 2 choke points that you must slip past, and if you're really lucky, you won't scrape the hull. Once you're in, you can dive at the brooklyn bridge and there is just enough water to operate at periscope depth. Also, any escorts that attempt to intercept you, usually get hung up on the shore. They don't plan the best path, just the shortest one, and that can work to your advantage, if you can put some terrain in the way.

[UKönig]

Safe depth charge range
In the early war, up to about 1941, if you can dive to about 157-160m, you will be out of range of the depth charges. They simply cannot hit you.
Go ahead, make as much racket as you want. The escorts know where you are, they will even set up (useless) attack runs, but they can't hit you.
Once you get to 1942, don't do this anymore. Depth charges lose their range restriction, and they can hit you at any depth you go to. Which is really bad for you if you are below 200m. Once even the smallest hull damage is taken, the boat rapidly starts suffering the effects of pressure. You have a choice then, surface and take your chances (slim to none) or dive too deeply and be crushed like a beer can.

[Sailor Steve]

It sounds to me like you've learned that the game is nothing like real life, and you can "game" the game, do the impossible and ignore everything they had to deal with.

The 8.8cm deck gun had very little to do with the FLAK gun of the same calibre. That gun could elevate to very high angles, and shot a timed-fuse shell which was meant to be used in massed groups against large bomber formations. The chance of one gun hitting one aircraft was no better than, well, the chance of a u-boat doing it. More than 120 aircraft were shot down by u-boats. I can't find any that were hit by a deck gun.

Sneak into New York? Not likely. After Scapa Flow no major naval base was ever entered by a u-boat. I don't know of any being foolish enough to try.

[UKönig]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

It sounds to me like you've learned that the game is nothing like real life, and you can "game" the game, do the impossible and ignore everything they had to deal with.

The 8.8cm deck gun had very little to do with the FLAK gun of the same calibre. That gun could elevate to very high angles, and shot a timed-fuse shell which was meant to be used in massed groups against large bomber formations. The chance of one gun hitting one aircraft was no better than, well, the chance of a u-boat doing it. More than 120 aircraft were shot down by u-boats. I can't find any that were hit by a deck gun.

Sneak into New York? Not likely. After Scapa Flow no major naval base was ever entered by a u-boat. I don't know of any being foolish enough to try.

Well, fortunately this is just a game. And yes, I have learned several of it's limitations. which does spoil the realism a bit, true, but again, it's just a game. Some of the fun is trying to get away with the "impossible". Are you brave enough to attack a major city? Invade gibraltar? The chances for fun are limitless. Use your imagination, but remember the most important part, it's. not. real.
The only drawback to planning a major attack only to have it go wrong, is the amount of time spent getting to the point when it became clear that you're 'in over your head' (pardon the pun)... Then you may have to reload 'in base before mission', and lose all your progress. This happened to me once in the straits of gibraltar. I took on more than I could handle and made 1 tiny mistake, the next 10 minutes was me watching 4 UK destroyers taking turns making attack runs, the end, not long in coming...
I just wanted readers to know that it is possible to do the (historically) impossible, and be good at it.
Which brings me to a question...
I sank about 1.3 million tons of shipping, commercial and warship, and when the time came for the war to end (May 8th), it didn't. I was assigned a new patrol and a new mission in June of 1945. Was that a bug that needs patching, or if you do really, really well, and sink more tonnage than was historically recorded, does that extend the war? My version of SH3 is standard, automatically patched to v1.4, when I bought the e-version of it, and I know it has a few tweaks needed, maybe that is one of them...

[Sailor Steve]

I try to play as realistically as possible by my standards. Of course I've been playing subsims for almost thirty years, so I'm a bit jaded.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I try to play as realistically as possible by my standards. Of course I've been playing subsims for almost thirty years, so I'm a bit jaded.

ME TOO BBY!

[UKönig]

Originally Posted by BL!TZKR!EG

I doubt that, to this day, these have been implemented.

Have they?

You know, to be honest, I don't really know if ubisoft has worked it into their programming engine. I like to think that the game is realistically enough rendered with regards to ocean currents or convection heating or whatnot to make such a thing as a thermal layer plausible. It is used in SH1, there is even a graph in the control room which shows when the temperature is changing, and you can determine if you have gone deep enough under the jet stream as to be hidden by it. There is no meter aboard any uboat that I have ever studied that showed this information, I guess it's a matter of assumption. But in the real world, it would be and has been a valid tactic of avoiding pursuit by a submarine. But as I said in an earlier post if the HKs are aggressive enough and keep you hooked in their sonar net, well, it doesn't matter anymore the noise your boat makes, they found you.

[UKönig]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I try to play as realistically as possible by my standards. Of course I've been playing subsims for almost thirty years, so I'm a bit jaded.

You've certainly my respect for doing so, I tend to keep some of the pressure off.
For what it's worth, I tend to go with (in SH3, for example) the mid range, or about 42%. I've read some stuff about some of the original bugs in SH3, suggesting the world is about 15% bigger than it should be so I turn off things as 'limited fuel', so it doesn't matter how big the world is, it's my oyster. I can go anywhere. Unlimited battery is good too, to help shake those pesky HKs, but I give myself limited air. I have to come up sometime. It's still up to me to ditch my pursuers or we all "suffocate". After that the options become flexible, but I like to keep the 'god's eye mode' I like to keep the map updates (even though i know how to use all my sensors, I'm lazy like that). I like to keep automatic targeting, because I am extremely bad at math, and if I had to work these solutions out myself, I would not nearly be as good at sinking anything. Maybe my own boat...
But, if you've been doing this kinda stuff for 30 years, don't you hunger for a new challenge? Why not set the bar higher for yourself and do something "insane", like, sail up the Thames and attack London? Or try to provoke the British home fleet? Of course it's impossible! That's why it's so frigging tasty!! I always attack NY whenever I get the chance. Be bold, be daring, who dares, wins!

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by UKönig

I've read some stuff about some of the original bugs in SH3, suggesting the world is about 15% bigger than it should be so I turn off things as 'limited fuel', so it doesn't matter how big the world is, it's my oyster.

It's because the SH3 world isn't round, so you have to travel further to get to the same point. GWX takes that into account and adds just enough extra fuel to make up for it.

I can go anywhere. Unlimited battery is good too, to help shake those pesky HKs, but I give myself limited air. I have to come up sometime.

I try to keep everything set for limited.

I like to keep the 'god's eye mode' I like to keep the map updates (even though i know how to use all my sensors, I'm lazy like that).

I use the 'Assisted Plotting' mod. Map updates are on, but the only thing that gets updated is the ship you have the 'scope locked onto. All others are removed from the map.

I like to keep automatic targeting, because I am extremely bad at math, and if I had to work these solutions out myself, I would not nearly be as good at sinking anything. Maybe my own boat...

Same here. I have 'Manual Targeting' set, but I use the WE Assistance. Once I lock onto a target I ask the Weapon Officer for an update. He's perfect, and I wish he wasn't, but at least I only get a new update when I ask for it rather than it being constant. This also requires me to put the 'scope up more often, thus increasing my chance of being spotted.

But, if you've been doing this kinda stuff for 30 years, don't you hunger for a new challenge? Why not set the bar higher for yourself and do something "insane", like, sail up the Thames and attack London? Or try to provoke the British home fleet? Of course it's impossible! That's why it's so frigging tasty!! I always attack NY whenever I get the chance. Be bold, be daring, who dares, wins!

Just the opposite, actually. With Silent Service, SS2 and Silent Hunter 1 and SH2 everything was always automatic. With SH3 I play as described, and for me just sinking a ship can be a challenge. I don't play much right now, because my single-core PC is nine years old and won't run things like IABL's Merchant Fleet Mod. After working for years to add almost 13,000 new ship names into SH3 Commander, I would really like to see the fruits of my labor, but I can't. Once I finally get a new computer I plan to run SH3 with all the goodies I've been lusting for. When that happens I will probably start a career that will last more than one year before I get bored, and I will almost certainly try to play even more realistically, not less.

But that's just me.

[UKönig]

It's important to have fun. The game is what it will be to players, and I do wish there was more of an on line LAN hosting presence, but we all have to find the enjoyment where we can.
I used to play more realistically, but I decided, why not just go with it? I invented some pseudo scientific reasons or explanations for my boat with its more advanced technology. Like a prototype high test hydrogen peroxide engine or a type of nuclear battery that never needs charging, because even at full speed and hotel load the thing will stay charged (unless damaged) for 25 years.
I wanted to see if I could shoot down bombers with the deck gun. I did. I wanted to see the statue of liberty under a flag of truce, I did. I wanted to see if I could slip past the choke points north of NY long island (old sh3 map), and I did. It was all fun. Except the part where I got dribbled along the ocean floor like a basketball. That sucked. Really put our pan fish down. I got pounded into submission from the b24s up above, who, lets face it, could hardly aim straight because the gunners were laughing too hard, and the rocks of the 11m shallows of long island below. That 'enterprise' became one of those 'reload in base before mission' kinda things...yeah.
to be honest, i'd like to try out some of the mods, but I'm too terrified of damaging something, some file or whatnot, and the game (flawed as it is) is still too precious to risk so wantonly. It's lame I know, but I don't want to mess it up, just in case I can never recover it. Too.. much... fun...

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by BL!TZKR!EG

I doubt that, to this day, these have been implemented.

Have they?

Nope...no thermal layers in the game.

[banryu79]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Nope...no thermal layers in the game.

But there is a mod for SHIII to give you a crude simulation of the layer

[BigWalleye]

There are several. The best, IMO, is in SH3 Commander. It attentuates active and passive sensors below a certain variable depth - sometimes. It uses the excellent randomization capability of SH3 Commander, so you don't always get a thermal layer and you don't know where it's going to be. And, since you don't have a BT, you can't find it except by chance. Very nice.

Note to UKoenig: You can't break software. As long as you still have the original installation files (disk or download) or can download another copy, you can always remove the mess you made and reinstall a pristine, new copy. It's yours forever. I badly corrupted my system some time back. I had to eliminate everything I had installed. Finding the causes of the problem took six weeks. Removing and deleting everything, cleaning the registry, reinstalling SH3, refreshing all mods from their zip files, and remaking h.sie and Stiebler patch files took all of one evening. And I had a perfectly working system when I finished. So don't be afraid to install mods and experiment. You can not do any permanent harm.

"Realism isn't about the settings. It's about how you play the game" - Rockin' Robbins

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by UKönig

I used to play more realistically, but I decided, why not just go with it?

The whole point of playing a game is to entertain yourself. Otherwise why do it? I misunderstood your first posts to be about playing more realistically, and I apologise for that. I'm old, I'm anal-retentive and I suffer from OCD. No, strike that. I don't suffer from it, I enjoy it immensely.

I'll let you get back to your topic, which is having fun your way. It just took me a little too long to figure that out.