Ethical eating

Skybird · 01-06-13, 04:55 PM

I have still not decided whether I want to laugh or take this one for serious.

http://theconversation.edu.au/orderi...our-hands-4659

Takeda Shingen · 01-06-13, 05:06 PM

I became a vegetarian because the diet is indeed healthier. Once I dropped the meat from my diet, the excess weight came off my body and I had more energy and felt better than I had ever in my life. While I would never go back to the diet I had before, I don't claim moral high ground. It's just a choice.

Oberon · 01-06-13, 06:14 PM

I admire vegetarians but I could never become one. However, the article does make a point, which comes under something we discussed before Skybird, humans mucking up the natural balance of the world.

Of course, that is not to say that there is a moral high-ground on the meat eating side either, whilst cattle pastures are a standard part of the Australian landscape now, they weren't always that way, nor where they in the Americas (both north and south) or indeed, anywhere. Certainly the destruction of rainforest land to clear lands for cattle farms in South America has caused a great deal of harm, and the disruption to the native ecosystem that cattle farming brought to central America in the early 1800s is another example, however in the cause of America and Australia, nature has adapted to the new status quo, trying to reverse that would cause more damage for nature and upset the apple cart once again.

It's not so much the choice that is the problem, it's the bulk volume of food, farms take up so much horizontal space that we have to expand out into greenfield land to make more farming space for crops.
I dearly hope that at some point in the near future, people start to give the idea of vertical farming some real consideration, I can't see it being the answer to all our problems, but certainly it will go some way to helping, particularly in terms of crop farming, and furthermore, it will allow for constant environmental monitoring and adjustment within a walled environment, thus making sure that whatever change is made to nature stays within the building, and since it could be built in cities and brownfield sites then there is no need for sprawling horizontal farms, heck you could even build it in the desert.

Naturally though, what it boils down to is the one major thing that both constrains us and advances us....Money.

Skybird · 01-06-13, 07:25 PM

It seems the author was arguing that vegetarian food and crop farming for ethical reasons is not that much an alternative to eating meat, because it actually kills even more sentient, self-aware life. That is what made me chuckle.

7 billion people - well I often said before I consider that to be 6 billion too many for a long-term, sustainable balance.

I eat meat rarely these days, when I do, it is beef steak, and - not as rarely as beef - chicken. No sausage, no meat as spread on bread (what is "Aufschnitt" in English?

) No pork, I do not like it. Kangaroo I could be interested in. Steaks I can do very well now, and my Goulasch is legenadary.

Chicken I sometimes use in Chinese-style Wok food with vegetables. And that'S it with meat for me. Fish not counted.

Corn I indeed eat a lot, I also bake my bread myself, with self-grinded flour (the bread tastes better than the sad carricature of bread bakeries sell these days, and it costs less than half of what a full-corn-bread ("Biobrot") would cost at the baker. And pizza dough - well, I reported on that, did I.

Living is eating, and eating is killing. The poor mice and moles I have never thought much about. I do not plan to change that in the future. Nor will I stop to eat corn. I like corn. If there is one thing I do not plan to do, then it is replacing my eating with grazing.

So it sucks to be a mouse. Well. Karma. If Skybird doesn't catch it, then the owl or the falcon surely will.

eddie · 01-06-13, 08:37 PM

Oberon, you're not going to give up fish and chips are you? This is an order you can get at a place in Chicago!

GoldenRivet · 01-06-13, 08:50 PM

personally i know three vegetarians... 2 of them are the two most overweight unhealthy individuals i know... one is a hot supermodel of a woman.

i think it depends on the person.

meat is a healthy, much needed part of a human diet.

Takeda Shingen · 01-06-13, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

meat is a healthy, much needed part of a human diet.

That largely depends on the type, method of preparation and quantity consumed. Red meats do have a connection with cancer and Type II diabetes as well as the obvious cardiovasular disease connection. Sausage and processed meats also have similar connections. It is very important not to fall into the 'I know a guy' syndrome. After all, we know of those pack-a-day smokers that never got cancer. That doesn't make smoking a good idea.

GoldenRivet · 01-06-13, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

That largely depends on the type, method of preparation and quantity consumed. Red meats do have a connection with cancer and Type II diabetes as well as the obvious cardiovasular disease connection. Sausage and processed meats also have similar connections. It is very important not to fall into the 'I know a guy' syndrome. After all, we know of those pack-a-day smokers that never got cancer. That doesn't make smoking a good idea.

everything - even the oxygen you breathe - kills you.

i will live my life as i chose as i think all people should live their lives as they choose.

i think too many people push their lifestyle.

I will eat red meat, drink liquor, smoke cigars and perform cunnilingus.

everyone else can do as they please.

i think the world worries too much honestly

Takeda Shingen · 01-06-13, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

everything - even the oxygen you breathe - kills you.

i will live my life as i chose as i think all people should live their lives as they choose.

i think too many people push their lifestyle.

I will eat red meat, drink liquor, smoke cigars and perform cunnilingus.

everyone else can do as they please.

i think the world worries to much honestly

And that's fine, as it is your choice, but that was not your argument. You said it was healthy, hence my problem with the statement. Your choices are your choices, but don't pass them off as promoting health in an attempt to justify them, occasionally to others but mostly to oneself.

GoldenRivet · 01-06-13, 09:33 PM

meat is part of a balanced healthy diet

Takeda Shingen · 01-06-13, 09:34 PM

Depends on type, preparation and quantity.

GoldenRivet · 01-06-13, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Depends on type, preparation and quantity.

agreed.

bacon 5 times a day deep fried in lard = bad

steak once or twice a week grilled = not bad

Takeda Shingen · 01-06-13, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

agreed.

bacon 5 times a day deep fried in lard = bad

steak once or twice a week grilled = not bad

I would question any red meat on the basis of health, and the studies back that up, but it is your heart and your colon. You'd be better off with some grilled salmon

01-07-13, 01:51 AM

Honestly as I get older and older the less enthused I am about eating any meat, I already outright don't eat bird or pig meat and haven't since I was a kid. (Watching a pig slowly die as a young lad does not leave you unscathed... pigs don't die quietly.....) Even beef, the little I actually eat I feel like I should lessen my use of.

BossMark · 01-07-13, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie

Oberon, you're not going to give up fish and chips are you? This is an order you can get at a place in Chicago!

I wouldn't give up this anything or anybody, I love fish "n" chips

01-06-13, 04:55 PM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,603 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Ethical eating I have still not decided whether I want to laugh or take this one for serious. http://theconversation.edu.au/orderi...our-hands-4659 __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-06-13, 07:25 PM	#4
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,603 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	It seems the author was arguing that vegetarian food and crop farming for ethical reasons is not that much an alternative to eating meat, because it actually kills even more sentient, self-aware life. That is what made me chuckle. 7 billion people - well I often said before I consider that to be 6 billion too many for a long-term, sustainable balance. I eat meat rarely these days, when I do, it is beef steak, and - not as rarely as beef - chicken. No sausage, no meat as spread on bread (what is "Aufschnitt" in English? ) No pork, I do not like it. Kangaroo I could be interested in. Steaks I can do very well now, and my Goulasch is legenadary. Chicken I sometimes use in Chinese-style Wok food with vegetables. And that'S it with meat for me. Fish not counted. Corn I indeed eat a lot, I also bake my bread myself, with self-grinded flour (the bread tastes better than the sad carricature of bread bakeries sell these days, and it costs less than half of what a full-corn-bread ("Biobrot") would cost at the baker. And pizza dough - well, I reported on that, did I. Living is eating, and eating is killing. The poor mice and moles I have never thought much about. I do not plan to change that in the future. Nor will I stop to eat corn. I like corn. If there is one thing I do not plan to do, then it is replacing my eating with grazing. So it sucks to be a mouse. Well. Karma. If Skybird doesn't catch it, then the owl or the falcon surely will. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-06-13, 08:50 PM	#6
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	personally i know three vegetarians... 2 of them are the two most overweight unhealthy individuals i know... one is a hot supermodel of a woman. i think it depends on the person. meat is a healthy, much needed part of a human diet. __________________

01-06-13, 09:33 PM	#10
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	meat is part of a balanced healthy diet __________________

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01-06-13, 05:06 PM	#2
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	I became a vegetarian because the diet is indeed healthier. Once I dropped the meat from my diet, the excess weight came off my body and I had more energy and felt better than I had ever in my life. While I would never go back to the diet I had before, I don't claim moral high ground. It's just a choice.

01-06-13, 06:14 PM	#3
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	I admire vegetarians but I could never become one. However, the article does make a point, which comes under something we discussed before Skybird, humans mucking up the natural balance of the world. Of course, that is not to say that there is a moral high-ground on the meat eating side either, whilst cattle pastures are a standard part of the Australian landscape now, they weren't always that way, nor where they in the Americas (both north and south) or indeed, anywhere. Certainly the destruction of rainforest land to clear lands for cattle farms in South America has caused a great deal of harm, and the disruption to the native ecosystem that cattle farming brought to central America in the early 1800s is another example, however in the cause of America and Australia, nature has adapted to the new status quo, trying to reverse that would cause more damage for nature and upset the apple cart once again. It's not so much the choice that is the problem, it's the bulk volume of food, farms take up so much horizontal space that we have to expand out into greenfield land to make more farming space for crops. I dearly hope that at some point in the near future, people start to give the idea of vertical farming some real consideration, I can't see it being the answer to all our problems, but certainly it will go some way to helping, particularly in terms of crop farming, and furthermore, it will allow for constant environmental monitoring and adjustment within a walled environment, thus making sure that whatever change is made to nature stays within the building, and since it could be built in cities and brownfield sites then there is no need for sprawling horizontal farms, heck you could even build it in the desert. Naturally though, what it boils down to is the one major thing that both constrains us and advances us....Money.

01-06-13, 08:37 PM	#5
eddie Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,023 Downloads: 99 Uploads: 0	Oberon, you're not going to give up fish and chips are you? This is an order you can get at a place in Chicago!

01-06-13, 09:34 PM	#11
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Depends on type, preparation and quantity.

01-07-13, 01:51 AM	#14
Rilder Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Honestly as I get older and older the less enthused I am about eating any meat, I already outright don't eat bird or pig meat and haven't since I was a kid. (Watching a pig slowly die as a young lad does not leave you unscathed... pigs don't die quietly.....) Even beef, the little I actually eat I feel like I should lessen my use of.