12x Power in Magui Mod

[SquidB]

Just a couple of questions.

The attack scope in the magui mod is capable of 12x magnification. Ive searched for sources but all i can find is reference to the attack scopes on the real boats being capable of 6x max magnification.

So why the 12x? Is there a way to convert the mod back to 6x max?

[Capt. Morgan]

You can edit that in data\library\cameras.dat using s3d - can't speak as to why Markman made it that way.

[SquidB]

ok , dont really have a clue how to do that lol, but are there any other OLC type mods compatible with the widescreen mod?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Capt. Morgan

You can edit that in data\library\cameras.dat using s3d - can't speak as to why Markman made it that way.

For the same reason GWX makes it x10 - no game is capable of the perfect resolution found in real life. This was the only way they could make the flags recognizable from a realistic distance.

The observation periscope in stock - x1 and x4 - is also wrong. They were all x1.5 and x6.

[SquidB]

Thanks for the clarification Sailor Steve.

So what your saying is its a work around to provide you with a realistic veiw given the limitaions of our PC displays?

If so ill buy it

[Sailor Steve]

Exactly. That said, I use x6 because I just feel better about it, but then I do have external view enabled if I really have to peek.

[SquidB]

Hmmm i can see the arguments both for and against, but it would be nice to be able to get rid of the 12x uberscope

[max-peck]

Changing the zoom level of the attack scope is relatively easy.
You'll need to use S3D.

The file you need to edit is Data/Library/cameras.dat
Go down to the periscope node, and under the optical sub-node you will see the zoom levels for the periscope camera controller.

See screenshot


Here you can see that my scope is set up for 2x and 6x
(Note: this is what ACM reloaded has set it up as)

That's the easy bit.

I can't tell you how to change the range markers so that you will get a correct range using the new zoom level.
I assume the MacGui has been designed to give you the correct range using the 12x zoom.

[Wolfstriked]

This is where I do not agree with any GUI modders.When I play SH3 and look thru the scopes or the UZO I never get the feeling of looking thru high powered scopes.Now your thinking that I want even higher magnification and your wrong.I am talking about FOV and how its too small IMO.There is a major thing wrong with current magnification system of the silent hunter series and this is that we are basing 6X and 12X off of the games 1x.

The view in 1X is nothing like what you see in real life.it is widened a huge amount to compensate for the monitor being the view you see.So it pulls the view outward so you see more of the world.Works great actually in a game and as long as you do not go too far you avoid the fishbowl look.But this is where things go wrong.1X is now distorted so that an object you are viewing at 1inch in real life is now in the game 1/4 inch at same distance.Now if you magnify that by say 4X the object will be now 1inch in game but in real life the object would be 4 inches giving you a very easy to look at image.I find that I have to get alot under 1km to be able to tell what nationality and sometimes closer to 300m.

I think I mentioned in past about this and the response was that this is what you would see thru a real binocular or uzo.But if you look at what I posted above its not what you would see and I feel it can be cured by having scopes and uzo taking up as much of the screen as possible.

What will using the full monitor screen or a large portion of it for a scopes view bring.

First is all of a sudden things will appear very large and magnified that you just do not get in current FOV scope views.This pic is not perfect but gives an idea of what having a fullscreen scope view will bring to the game.

IMAGE....http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7900/ss200scope2.jpg.....


EDIT....just found this mod or pic of the mod.Its the observation scope taking up close to the whole screen.Why was this not standard for SH games?It mimics better what you would see thru a scope....again IMO as I may be wrong AGAIN here.






I hope this gets my point across better.What would be ultimate for this is to figure out how many inches an object say 100m long is at 1km and then magnify that size by the magnification factor of a scope and trying as best as possible to make the ingame scope image the same size for a 21inch monitor to level the field for most users.

What you would need to do is then take all the TDC panels and have them all pop up when needed only or maybe even have the TDC button go directly to the TDC attack map view.....with a pause function to game would be superb but I do not know if that is possible.

EDIT.....forgot to mention that you would need to overlook the ingame magnification level since to get a correctly sized ship it may have weird mag levels like 32X etc.All again due to the ingame 1X being very distorted.

[Wolfstriked]

This sounds crazy but might actually make sense if you open your opinion for a second.What about nothing onscreen but the tickmarks and maybe the bearing overlay and having the monitors bezel act like the edges of viewport.Its not far from reality considering when you would look thru a scope you really dont see the lens piece your looking thru.You would see exactly what you see in this pic below.

IMAGE....http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7900/ss200scope2.jpg....

Watch this video of SH5 from 1:10 on.The player goes to the scope at 1:20 and then the scope is removed/the ship is magnified and.....you have to imagine scale marks and a bearing overlay and the staidmeter and RAOFB buttons onscreen also but you will get what I mean.

[Wolfstriked]

Fellas,no responses?I think this is a very good idea.It could be a way to have super realism scopes since a scope is not trying to simulate the FOV we humans have that wraps around our heads 180degs.Instead,a scope has a flat FOV so its easily mimicked with a fulll screen.

I noticed in Makmans GUI for SH5 that he posted this below.That is great but it is covered by the graphics onscreen.This makes the boat at a normal viewing distance fill the whole viewport.IF the whole screen is now the viewport then a proper fov would work.Makman can you correct me if I am wrong here??

1.Both scopes have now the , historically for german scopes, proper FOV (Field Of View) which is 38 degrees.

[SquidB]

Anything that add more realism is great in my book.

SH should be about simulation, and of course immersion. (Especially in a sub sim ).

A similar argument has raged in the flight sim world for ages. Having to represent an aircraft cockpit on a average monitor means that the default view has to be overly zoomed out to provide a useful field of view.

With a periscope though things are different.

Firstly we are representing optics. Therefore they have a fixed field of view.

The first step should be to have the periscopes with the same field of views as they did in RL. I belive that the Magui did a fair bit of work in this area, and I like the FOV it provides.

Second, levels of zoom.

Id actually forgotten that GWX featured a 10x scope. Since i reloaded SH3 (after being dissapointed with SH5 even with mods, although the Magui in that version does feature a max zoom of x6) i modded it up.

I can see why it was done, but personally feel its not a fix for the issue, and infact worse than the original problem it was designed to fix.

Consider optics in other "realistic" games. Sniper scopes for example. I have never heard the argument that because our screen res is low that the zooms have been doubled. It seems odd.

I understand that the problem lays in that even a HD display comes nowhere near representing the resolution that real optics provide to the naked eye.

But then again the same limitations can give us an unrealistic advantage over the real thing too. Our virtual scopes dont mist up, get dirty, misaligned. The atmospheric conditions and lighting are all very basic and dont provide anywhere near the variety of situations we encounter in the game. Sea state, spray, its there but very basic and a lot easier to look through than the real thing. So on balance I would suggest that the advantages and disadvantages cancel out.

OK i may have trouble working out what flag those pixels actually represent through a x6 view, but also my optics are not having to peer through a load of mist or spray or gunk on the lens.

That said I think the idea of enlarging the veiw of the periscope to its largest possible screen area is a great workaround, and would help the resolution problem. At the end of the day no solution is going to get around the fact that your sat infront of a monitor, but this sounds like a logical way improve the situation.

Then again, having narrow views of the outside world is something that sub sims are all about. On an emotional and athestic level they help to encourage that feeling of claustraphobia.

I feel more comfortable when in my F4 conning tower view as it feels like being outside. Would having full screen optics detract from that? Maybe.

Finally There is another question -

How hard is it to implement?

I have no idea. Given the other GUI mods that have been released i imagine it is possible, and hopefully someone will step up to the challenge. As a mod people (myself included) could try it out and vote via JSGME. As I started my post, anything that adds to realism & immersion is good.

[Wolfstriked]

I did a mock mod where I removed all the graphics for the scopes leaving only a cross centered on screen and I am torn.In one point it feels off when the scope is fullscreen and doesn't feel like looking thru a scope.But it feels more like a simulation when the scope is the whole screen.Boats at 1km are huge and take up large part of screen and easy to see at 3km.Everything looks more real while looking thru a scope that large.But again it goes against the feel of looking thru a scope.So its a feel thing or a realistic scope simulation sadly.This feel of not looking right is mainly on the deck though and its not really noticeable when say submerged.Still think that the pic below is great since its not fullscreen but large enough to make a scope closer to real life.Would need to make all the dials and controls clickable onscreen though.

[Wolfstriked]

Kool Idea

Would it be possible to have this pic (MaguiF version though)when you go to scope to mimick you at the scope station and have ability to change the TDC settings


Then go to this type pic when you click on scope to move it(simulate putting the eye to the lens)for observation and getting readings.Maybe the smaller view for 1x and 6x is the larger view?

[postalbyke]

How about a popout TDC interface like the Obs. Scope on Magui?
This way you're using the full screen and have the TDC.
Make the RAOBF larger, to boot!

Edit: this FOV reminds me of... OLC Gui?