job related rant

[GoldenRivet]

I had this student pilot. Eat, breathe, sleep and defecate aviation type of guy. knew all the airliners, knows the route structure for most major airlines, what cities they serve what cities they don't.

started flying when he was 16 years old. I got him soloed, we became fast friends. he got his license and i was super proud because I had mostly worked with the weekend warrior types and this kid was on his way to the tippy top.

He got his private and instrument ratings. headed off to school and spent 4 and a half years getting an aerospace degree. Got his commercial single engine and multi engine under his belt. Finished his flight instructor certificate and instrument instructor certificate. graduated with that degree in hand.

he had this dream that one day he would be a major airline pilot.

after he got his school finished up, we worked together on a number of "charter flights" all over the south central and southwest USA. really knows his stuff. great pilot.

today he walked away from that dream after dedicating all that time and energy to it.

I think it finally occurred to him that he would be much better off - financially speaking - if he went out and worked in the mud of the oil field with his brother.

his brother spent the weekend with him, apparently he earns a six figure income doing some job out in the field. which job im not sure. and whether my buddy can get the exact same job and whether or not it will take him 10 years to get to that earnings potential - I dont know. but with looming school loans to pay back and absolutely ZERO job prospects for pilots of his age/experience/flight time he made the decision to do what he felt like he had to do.

I understand why he did it.

you cannot expect a man to go to work for $18,000 a year in this country doing a job that cost him well over $100,000 in school loans to get into, flying hundreds of thousands of passengers a year all over the United States, on that wage... 240+ days a year away from home barely able to afford to feed himself let alone any family he may or may not have.

i cant blame him either - this time next month i will very likely be entering the insurance business at the recommendation of a family friend. My fairly long and varied career in aviation becoming an occasional weekend hobby.

I just hate to see it come to this for the guy. I know how frustrating it can be.

I have told him 3 things he needs to do over the next 12-18 months to get an airline job.

1. get a flight instructing job as there are a couple of positions to be had around here.
2. build about 500 more hours over the next 12-18 months
3. get about 100 hours of multi engine flight time over that same period and apply for any regional airline job - he'd be sure to get ONE at least.

but he wont have it.

I guess it says a lot about our country and the aviation industry itself when a young man would be better off to squat in the mud and bore scope pipelines than fly multi million dollar aircraft all over the country.

[Catfish]

Very bad, but sounds familiar.

Fact is, there are never enough jobs even for well-trained people. I would never have thought to serve in the Navy, then study with some success, and then never get a real job.

But face it, CNC machines and computers are making more and more jobs obsolete, and since there is so much offer manpower-wise, the relation of supply and demand is screwed up - there is no shortage even of well trained people, so companies can pay low prices, it's an open market.
There are doctors in machining and medicine, meanwhile driving a taxi to make a living. I am happy i don't have to do that, but if i had to .. you can be lucky if you get a job at all, nowadays

[Freiwillige]

Your rant has inspired my rant that ties in with your rant.

Allot of the blame belongs to these trade schools that pump out thousands of graduates a year for a field that has a 3% yearly new hire rate. The market becomes saturated with skilled labor and as competition increases the wages plummet. Its a win win for the schools and businesses alike and a no win for the graduate\employee.

Its a sad state of affairs that our country has gotten itself into. I see no future for anybody anymore. The American dream is officially dead.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

Your rant has inspired my rant that ties in with your rant.

Allot of the blame belongs to these trade schools that pump out thousands of graduates a year for a field that has a 3% yearly new hire rate. The market becomes saturated with skilled labor and as competition increases the wages plummet. Its a win win for the schools and businesses alike and a no win for the graduate\employee.

Its a sad state of affairs that our country has gotten itself into. I see no future for anybody anymore. The American dream is officially dead.

hammer - check


nail - check


head - BAM

[Freiwillige]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

hammer - check


nail - check


head - BAM

Indeed!

[CCIP]

It's sad that it's like that in any field... you can name almost any "dream job" of 'ole days and I that is indeed by and large a dead dream to day. In the one that I grew up dreaming of getting into, teaching, things are also looking bad. I'm seeing so many good people give up, just crushed by the blood-sucking system that it is. I myself am on the verge of getting out... and it's really disheartening.

As someone who still has aviation fantasies, that is also rather disheartening. I guess someday the best I can hope for myself is being a weekend warrior like that, but it's a shame to see someone put in so much work and real talent, and walk away with nothing.

[Gargamel]

I recently left the Paramedic field for the same reasons. I made almost no money, was constantly in a high risk (driving, bio exposures, even been shot at a few times), High responsibility, high stress position, with little to now compensation.

I'm in the process of trying to get a factory job with my brother, who moves large cans of paint dye around and makes over twice what I did, and is far happier than I ever have been.

They say do a job you love and you'll never work again.

Not true. I loved my profession, and was pretty damn good at it. People regularly came to me for advice on various things. I was trying to get my instructors cert, but there was never enough interest overall to hold a class. I walked away a few months ago because I hated my career, but loved my profession.

[Freiwillige]

In fact my fiance has gone through the Certified Nursing Assistant program and completed it looking to get her foot in the door for nursing. Nobody is hiring because the field is so saturated, After three years she gave up.

So she looked to skip the basic experience requirements and jump right into nursing. It's a three to five year waiting list just to go to nursing school!

So she looked at being an x-ray tech on the advice of a friend and checked out the local program. They want 47k for 18 months of school and then to top it off they want you to work a year externship for free no pay! That school and its very same program was just 6k 5 years ago!

So she found a community college that's quite a drive to get to that has the same program but its only 9k but yet again its a three year waiting list just to get in!

[Bakkels]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I understand why he did it.

you cannot expect a man to go to work for $18,000 a year in this country doing a job that cost him well over $100,000 in school loans to get into, flying hundreds of thousands of passengers a year all over the United States, on that wage... 240+ days a year away from home barely able to afford to feed himself let alone any family he may or may not have.

Wait, I think I must be misinterpreting this. Are you talking about a commercial airline pilot job? Does that make 18k in the US nowadays? That's a ridiculously low wage.
Aside from that, I feel your frustration. It's a damn shame to see talent go to waste, especially if he's practically forced by economic circumstances.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Bakkels

Wait, I think I must be misinterpreting this. Are you talking about a commercial airline pilot job? Does that make 18k in the US nowadays? That's a ridiculously low wage.
Aside from that, I feel your frustration. It's a damn shame to see talent go to waste, especially if he's practically forced by economic circumstances.

No he didnt have a commercial airline pilot job... he did not have the required flight time to get many jobs like that, and there are just not many places that take a low time pilot hiring at the moment... he was just doing odd flying jobs when they came available, which is not something that comes up frequently.

as for the airline pilot pay i talked about:

take a look at Mesa airlines, they are probably the lowest paying regional carrier in the United States. (remember... just because the airplane says United Express or US Airways express on the side doesnt mean the airplane has anything to do with those companies other than a code share agreement behind the scenes)

year one new hire first officer makes $19.00 per flight hour with a guarantee of 76 hours of flying per month. The pilot may fly more or less than the guarantee.

so, before taxes that translates to $1,444 per month - or - $17,328 per year. Remember this is before taxes and other costs like insurance benefits etc.

but, if you hang in there... within 5 years you will reach the salary cap of the first officer position at an annual income of $23,712 - again before taxes etc.

one of the higher paying regional airlines is American Eagle.

new hire annual salary just over $21,000

salary cap for the first officer position there comes at 8 years at $32,659

it takes between 5-7 years to get a captain seat depending on the carrier, and once a captain seat is secured, the pay rate usually increases by about 45%

The airline industry is set up for "movement" meaning that regional airlines hire pilots who will be First officers. as senior captains leave the airline to go to places like FedEx, American, Delta etc this creates a vacancy and everyone moves up in seniority. eventually the new hire pilot has moved up in seniority enough to become a captain.

for the past 10 years there has been little to no movement. American Airlines for example - has not hired a "new" pilot in about 10 years.

at the moment, there are pilots at the regional level who have been with those companies for so long that they are making a decent living... and it is simply not worth it to many of them to resign to take a new job at another company because they will take a massive paycut for the first 3 or 4 years of employment at the new company.

the result is "stagnation" - everyone is inching their way up the seniority list, and hiring and shedding of pilots is only about 10-20 per month. ideally regional carriers should be shedding and hiring about 60 to 80 pilots per month if not more.

EDIT:

he is qualified as an instructor because the school's degree program required the flight instructor certificate - not because he wanted to be a CFI. I told him to bite the bullet and flight instruct... he does not want to do this because he feels that he would not be a good instructor because he has no instructing experience.

my logic is that every flight instructor, at some point had "zero" experience as a flight instructor. at some point you need to do like i did so many years ago when faced with a course load of new students... 1) give yourself a pep talk in the mirror 2) when that doesnt work, vomit. 3) wipe the vomit off your chin and go out there and just try to enjoy the fact that someone is paying you to fly something.

after a couple of months, it wouldnt bother him any more.


on the plus side, he may yet do that. but he needs something to pay the school loans off with and humpin it around the pattern in 100 degree texas heat isnt going to bring him that many sweat sogged dollars.