Forward into the past - Israel gives ground to orthodox

Skybird · 01-07-11, 08:11 AM

Religious fundamentalists are kind of a breed, always, no matter whether they smell Christian, Islamic or Jewish. Israel, claiming to be the only Western-style democracy in the ME, has seen a period of constant advance for gender segregation: in busses, police stations, on EL AL flights, public services, and at public events.

Add to this regular riots when the orthodox try to enforce collective obedience of all society to the rules of Sabbath, by blockades and staging public protest events.

I use to defend Israel against Islamic claims and EU idiocy, but I never said it is a perfect state. And on this new trend of advancing gender segregation I can only say: shame on you, Israel.

http://www.irac.org/userfiles//Exclu...ael%281%29.pdf

GoldenRivet · 01-07-11, 08:14 AM

take two Aspirin and call us in the morning Sky... judging by the spelling, its been a rough one!

MH · 01-07-11, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Religious fundamentalists are kind of a breed, always, no matter whether they smell Christian, Islamic or Jewish. Israel, claiming to be the only Western-style democracy in the ME, has seen a period of constant advance for gender segregation: in busses, police stations, on EL AL flights, public services, and at public events.

Add to this regular riots when the orthodox try to enforce collective obedience of all society to the rules of Sabbath, by blockades and staging public protest events.

I use to defend Israel against Islamic claims and EU idiocy, but I never said it is a perfect state. And on this new trend of advancing gender segregation I can only say: shame on you, Israel.

http://www.irac.org/userfiles//Exclu...ael%281%29.pdf

So there are Orthodox in Israel should we send them back to Poland and Germany or force them to re education camps because they are pain in the ass somtimes.
Israel is very mixed place so it is democracy..
If you base your opinion just because of this maybe you simply know nothing about Israel.
I live in Jerusalem and i see orthodox and half naked women in summer and muslim/christian arabs in city cente and buses every day .
Now i dont care what orthodox do inside their own comunites as long as i or them have choice to do otherwise.
There are no laws of segragation in Israel.
Whats the matter with you not every one likes Shnaps and bacon or somthing like that......

Skybird · 01-07-11, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH

So there are Orthodox in Israel should we send them back to Poland and Germany or force them to re education camps because they are pain in the ass somtimes.
Israel is very mixed place so it is democracy..
If you base your opinion just because of this maybe you simply know nothing about Israel.
I live in Jerusalem and i see orthodox and half naked women in summer and muslim/christian arabs in city cente and buses every day .
Now i dont care what orthodox do inside their own comunites as long as i or them have choice to do otherwise.
There are no laws of segragation in Israel.
Whats the matter with you not every one likes Shnaps and bacon or somthing like that......

Instead of offending me personally you may want to argue with that report by that Israeli organisation that I linked, or with your own High Court that just has legitimised genbder segregation in busses.

Orthodox and ultra-consevatives often are the kingmakers in Israeli cabinets, and what I said on orthodox starting blockades on sabbath is based on TV documentations in German TV, in two cases of the past two years they just copied over reports from Israeli TV stations, where they showed orthodx in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem blocking crossroads to hinder cars moving on, and blockades of certain service offices the orthodox did not want to operate on that day.

Is not only the report I linked to wrong - proof, please - , and is your own TV media lieing?

01-07-11, 10:19 AM

MH , again you are burying your head in the sand and saying that other people simply know nothing.
My mind is a bit fuzzy so could you remind me of that untra-orthadox Rabbi who got into trouble last week for saying that the ultra-orthodox were going to destroy the state(though strictly speaking from an ultra perspective the state of Israel doesn't exist does it).

Quote:

Now i dont care what orthodox do inside their own comunites as long as i or them have choice to do otherwise.

Thats the problem isn't it, they are extending their choice onto other communities and making them comply with their own fundamentalist views.
After all they couldn't be attacking people for driving cars or burning down business premisis if they were only sharing their own values by choice within their own community.

tater · 01-07-11, 10:45 AM

Religious fundamentalism is always a mistake when it mucks with public policy. You get stuck having a society that holds one religion above others, which is bad, or alternately (say here in the US), you create a precedent for other religious zealots to demand "equal treatment" and have their pet insanity made law.

Neither are desirable solutions in a pluralistic society, IMO.

MH · 01-07-11, 11:03 AM

As i said orthodox can be pain in the ass .
Yes there are places in Jerusalem where you cant drive a car on Shabbat but in most places you can.
Yes it happened a few times in the past many years that orthodox burned some businesses because they opened on shabbat-it dosnt happen anymore.
In Jerusalem you have lots of bars and shops opened on weekends if you want to have some fun.
Acording to the last low by supreme court segration between women and men can be done only by choice.
That means that a person can ask another to sit somwhere else and one can agree or not.
Egged the public transportation company tried to operate buses with segragation within orthodox comunities which the court passed as illegal.
Israel is not fundamentalist country and not even getting close to that.
We have our share of problems with orthodox minority but as long as they dont blow up buses or wage jihad its just a pain.
Whats the point of this thread?
To prove that we are another sharia country well...Israel is not .

tater · 01-07-11, 11:18 AM

I'm a pretty strong supporter of Israel, actually. I support the US, too, but I still will argue against any creeping attacks on the separation of church and state. In the case of Israel, since I don't live there it is less concerning to me, and regardless of what the situation is there WRT church and state, I think that even a religious (orthodox) Israel is valuable as a counter to the rest of the islamist ME (and yes, I use islamist on purpose, as I think it represents the trend).

01-07-11, 08:11 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,612 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Forward into the past - Israel gives ground to orthodox Religious fundamentalists are kind of a breed, always, no matter whether they smell Christian, Islamic or Jewish. Israel, claiming to be the only Western-style democracy in the ME, has seen a period of constant advance for gender segregation: in busses, police stations, on EL AL flights, public services, and at public events. Add to this regular riots when the orthodox try to enforce collective obedience of all society to the rules of Sabbath, by blockades and staging public protest events. I use to defend Israel against Islamic claims and EU idiocy, but I never said it is a perfect state. And on this new trend of advancing gender segregation I can only say: shame on you, Israel. http://www.irac.org/userfiles//Exclu...ael%281%29.pdf __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-07-11, 08:14 AM	#2
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	take two Aspirin and call us in the morning Sky... judging by the spelling, its been a rough one! __________________

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01-07-11, 10:45 AM	#6
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Religious fundamentalism is always a mistake when it mucks with public policy. You get stuck having a society that holds one religion above others, which is bad, or alternately (say here in the US), you create a precedent for other religious zealots to demand "equal treatment" and have their pet insanity made law. Neither are desirable solutions in a pluralistic society, IMO.

01-07-11, 11:03 AM	#7
MH Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,184 Downloads: 248 Uploads: 0	As i said orthodox can be pain in the ass . Yes there are places in Jerusalem where you cant drive a car on Shabbat but in most places you can. Yes it happened a few times in the past many years that orthodox burned some businesses because they opened on shabbat-it dosnt happen anymore. In Jerusalem you have lots of bars and shops opened on weekends if you want to have some fun. Acording to the last low by supreme court segration between women and men can be done only by choice. That means that a person can ask another to sit somwhere else and one can agree or not. Egged the public transportation company tried to operate buses with segragation within orthodox comunities which the court passed as illegal. Israel is not fundamentalist country and not even getting close to that. We have our share of problems with orthodox minority but as long as they dont blow up buses or wage jihad its just a pain. Whats the point of this thread? To prove that we are another sharia country well...Israel is not .

01-07-11, 11:18 AM	#8
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	I'm a pretty strong supporter of Israel, actually. I support the US, too, but I still will argue against any creeping attacks on the separation of church and state. In the case of Israel, since I don't live there it is less concerning to me, and regardless of what the situation is there WRT church and state, I think that even a religious (orthodox) Israel is valuable as a counter to the rest of the islamist ME (and yes, I use islamist on purpose, as I think it represents the trend).