Manual targeting in 100% realism.

[Chisum]

These questions to the heros of SH3 who play in 100% realism.

How can I take the right mesurements of the distance if I can't use the SH3 internal system mesurement due the boat move all the time ?

How can I identifie a ship by night if I can't see absolutly anything ?

Is SH3 100% realism mod reserved to play by daylight and quiet sea ?

Thanks in advance.

[Hitman]

How can I take the right mesurements of the distance if I can't use the SH3 internal system mesurement due the boat move all the time ?

You can't, and real life Kaleuns couldn't either. You have to guesstimate the distance to target. For that purpose I added the range tables to my GUI

How can I identifie a ship by night if I can't see absolutly anything ?

You can't, and real life Kaleuns couldn't either. There was more than one surprise, enemy or even allied killed by error. Depending on the mod you are using, neutrals would be lit and clearly marked, but if you can't identify, then don't shoot. Or shoot and risk what can happen. Yesterday I sent to the bottom a greek neutral in 1941

A method of knowing wether friend or foe is (Asuming you are against a single ship) to shoot with the deck gun in front of him. If he starts zigzagging and even replying to your shot, you can be sure it is enemy and attack him.

Is SH3 100% realism mod reserved to play by daylight and quiet sea ?

No, but those conditions hinder a lot operations. As they did in real life.

Well, that all is what 100% realism is about, isn't it?

[Chisum]

Originally Posted by Hitman

You can't, and real life Kaleuns couldn't either. You have to guesstimate the distance to target. For that purpose I added the range tables to my GUI

What is the range tables ?

Originally Posted by Hitman

You can't, and real life Kaleuns couldn't either. There was more than one surprise, enemy or even allied killed by error. Depending on the mod you are using, neutrals would be lit and clearly marked, but if you can't identify, then don't shoot. Or shoot and risk what can happen. Yesterday I sent to the bottom a greek neutral in 1941

A method of knowing wether friend or foe is (Asuming you are against a single ship) to shoot with the deck gun in front of him. If he starts zigzagging and even replying to your shot, you can be sure it is enemy and attack him.

Sorry, by "identifie" I meant "what type of ship is it". But it's probably the same answer: I can't.

Originally Posted by Hitman

No, but those conditions hinder a lot operations. As they did in real life.
Well, that all is what 100% realism is about, isn't it?

Yep it is probably. It just that I can't found the interest to be unable to play the game.
But I will do my best to understand.

[KL-alfman]

Originally Posted by Chisum

What is the range tables ?

Hitman pointed to his new and fantastic GUI:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=167126

[Chisum]

It looks great !
Downloading, thanks mate.

[KL-alfman]

Originally Posted by Chisum

It looks great !
Downloading, thanks mate.

you are welcome!

good hunting

[Kremmen]

Definitely adds another layer to your operations when you can't just zip over with the external cam to check a target out.
Personally I'm more concerned about the nationality of the target than ID'ing the ship type itself.Probably because most of the time the ship's right on top of me and I'm still flipping throught the manual like a maniac.
If I can ID the ship type all well and good,if not,confirm nationality,set the torps to 2m and let rip.
The number of times I've gone through the process of gathering all the data,got into a good firing position and fired without checking the flag...
Now I try and remind myself to check the flag before firing but mistakes do happen
I feel it just brings another element to the attack especially in rough weather and poor visibility.

[pickinthebanjo]

Yeah with a good GUI you should be able to get pretty precise range, aob and speed estimates. I just started using the OLC GUI and I like the range disks in it. And I just started playing without using the Free cam(F12) It's still on for taking screenshots but when following my torpedoes I use the hydrophone now, it's the next best thing to being there.

Also last night I decided to stop making attacks if I can't visually ID the target. This is for reasons of nationality but mainly for saving torpedoes. (unless I can use the 88mm)

[Chisum]

You really make me want to play in 100%.
I've never done before, now I still try to hit the target and it goes back regularly ...
I am going to test this GUI then I'll go into 100% because after 3 years of "kinder game" it is time to use SH3 as a professional.

Thanks.

See you later....perhaps.

[pickinthebanjo]

What's funny is when I started playing SH3 it was the first time I ever SEEN a sub game forget played one, yet I stuck on manual aiming and everything else but the event cam and the external cam. It took me like a month before I was able to hit anything.

Now I can usually hit whatever I aim at but then I stuck OLC GUI on. Had to re-learn it all, but this time it only took like a day. But after seeing stock and a new GUI, I would have to say nothings better than a good GUI. Now I can get Range and AOB instantly. I had to guess before

[maillemaker]

How can I take the right mesurements of the distance if I can't use the SH3 internal system mesurement due the boat move all the time ?

If you use the "fixed wire" method of attack, range does not matter.

How can I identifie a ship by night if I can't see absolutly anything ?

You can't.

Is SH3 100% realism mod reserved to play by daylight and quiet sea ?

Well, if you come across a convoy, odds are pretty good that it's an enemy convoy, or at least contains enemy ships. This is not a guarantee, however.

If you come across single ships, you can usually have enough time to get in close enough to see, or, as was said, take a shot at it with your deck gun and see what happens.

Also, be aware of where you are sailing. If you are off the coast of Norway, you might see friendly or neutral ships. If you are off the coast of England, it's more likely that you will encounter English ships.

Fixed Wire Attack
1) Point sub and periscope 000 heading and bearing just in front of target ship. This negates the effect of submarine speed on target speed calculation.
2) As bow of target ship crosses vertical reticule, start stopwatch.
3) As stern of target ship crosses vertical reticule, stop stopwatch.
4) Identify ship in Recognition Manual. Manual tells you ship length.
5) Calculate target speed using: (Ship Length in Meters * 1.94) / Time in Seconds.
6) Go to TDC. Enable Manual Data Entry. Set Angle on Bow (AoB) to either 90 port or starboard, depending on which side of the target ship you are. Set speed as determined in step 5. Turn off Manual Data Entry.
7) Go to Periscope/UZO. Turn scope until gyro angle reads 000.
8) Go back to TDC. Turn on Manual Data Entry. Tweak AoB back to 90 degrees. Turn off Manual Data Entry.
9) Go back to scope. Tweak scope until gyro angle reads 000.
10) Go back to TDC. Confirm you are still at 90 AoB. If not, repeat steps 7-10.
11) Drive sub to course 90 degrees to target track. Open tube doors.
12) Wait for target ship to cross vertical reticule when scope is at 000 gyro angle. Fire torpedoes.

[Immelman]

Range doesn't matter?? How is this possible??

There are three unknowns that must be known to accurately shoot an eel:
Target's speed, AOB, range to target. Without it you can't do the math you can't determine by how many degrees to lead the target for your shot.

I can't see how this could possibly work, range cannot be omitted it is an integral part of the calculation!

Please explain the math behind your theory

[Kremmen]

@Immelman
Check out the animation in post #9

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146795

Demonstrates how range is unnecessary using this method.

[unterseemann]

You can always have a range to target, it's just less accurate and sometimes really annoying, but i don't think it's a big problem in the end.
If you can't identify a ship just get closer, i mean REALLY closer if your navigation skills are good it should be easy. In the same time try to measure its speed and bearing and plot an attack later. Or if you are patient enough wait till daylight visibility should be better.
Broad daylight and calm seas are obviously better to learn but attacks in stormy weather are possible too
The main problem is the heavy fog heavy rain weather with visibility <300m. The only solution i've ever found is to get behind the ship exactly in his 180° and launch a magnetic triggered torpedo which most of the time blow its propellers and makes it a 'sitting duck'.

Manual targeting is much easier than it seems so hold on!

[geosub1978]

There are four parameters,
bearing-range-coarse-speed.

This means that you need four measurements to get a solution, (4 bearings, 4 ranges, 4 speeds, 4 courses, 3 bearings+1course, 2 courses+2ranges etc) Don't ask how, but yes, four courses can give you a solution. This is mother nature speaking!

If you doupt about the accurancy, then plot your measurements on navmap and keep time. You will see that the spots are spread left and right of a mean line of advance. The more measurements you take, the more close the mean line is to reality. The accurency is good enough to aim your torpedoes.

In deep night and bad weather, you can perform "hydrophone approach and attack". It works. Thats why I suggest the "Assisted Plotting Mod"
The problem are the fishing boats which the sonarman cannot distinguish from a merchant...(game weakness..)

The range is important to place the target. The range is not important for the calculation of the Deflection Angle for straight shots +/- 20degrees.