My two cents... keep the change.

[Drewcifer]

There is alot of issues with this game... or lack thereof in many cases. I'm looking at you depth under keel, compass, radio, etc, etc. Of course behind that is a mob of angry consumers, people who paid hard earned money for a product that in all honesty is.. well unfinished, unpolished, and well a lemon in lack of another way to put it.

This all being said I am an avid SH fan and will continue to be. We have to remember the TINY genre we are in, this is not Modern Warefare or Battlefield this is a Simulator which most people in the videogame world don't even look at the box, or even know the title exisits Ubi or not. sh3 was launched and while it was basically a working copy of what they said your money was buying it was lacking so much... which was later modded and made into one the greatest sub sims of all time. That being said Ubi basically sold you what they said they were.... I mean obvious it had more miles on it then they said over the phone, and we all know that waterpump is going out in another 20-40 miles..

THE point is I guess I'm rambling too here, we should be ready for this, we should be prepared for this why are we all up in arms crying over these things??? This is bussiness as usual in the SH world. They aren't gonna rush a patch out there isn't 300,000 people in online matches as we speak... there isn't any demand really we are a tiny percent of the gaming community. We are back shelf.

Yes I hate the DRM, but whatever. Yes I bought an unfinished game... BUT it does everything it says on the box so.. no federal case. I'm settling in and waiting this out. I know this will eventually be a great game.

Despite everything that has happened the only thing that I personnally have even been mad about is Ubi's complete and utter lack of communication with the consumers.. There is no excuse for it. If Modern Warefare had an issue there was no need to rant and rave on the devs forums no because right out loud on the front page it was say PATCH COMING FIXES FOR... etc. etc and this can be said of almost ANY title. Forget the big sellers... hell Mount and Blade Warband which to me is a cheap... rather unplayed sad little game of its own has been out a month maybe tops? And they have released I think two patches? Maybe three and all were announce out loud on the website OF THE GAME there was no questions, it was all cleared and consumers knew the plan.

I understand delays, I get it, but there is no excuse that somebody is a middle man between the team working on the patch and the waiting public. That is an insult and a shame.

Alright I'm done sorry for the rant.

[Reaves]

You aren't going to get the popularity of Call of Duty when the game is full of holes.

EVERY single review I've read of this game has shot it out of the water because of the state it was in on release.

Id suggest rethinking the stand of "we should accept the unfinished product release because we are a small genre" as that is causing this series to stay below the radar. Anyway there is nothing that can be done, the denial of an issue and the acceptance of it will not be done by many of us though... Sorry but get used to it.

If you build it (good) they will come.

[Zedi]

Originally Posted by Reaves

...

Id suggest rethinking the stand of "we should accept the unfinished product release because we are a small genre" as that is causing this series to stay below the radar.

...

This!

[Ragtag]

It's the "we accept it" attitude ruining this genre. These games will never get an increased number of players/buying customers if they continue to release games that's incomplete and rendered with gamebreaking bugs. Every review says the same on that matter.
As long as we "accept it" they will continue to do it. Ubisoft's management couldn't care less. The Dev team is another matter. But what they want and think really doesn't matter, in the end, because it's not they who makes the decisions. The only reason that Silent Hunter has sold well since SH3 is that the graphics is incredible and ,dare i say, most gamers today are "graphicswhores". It's definatly the biggest selling point.
Now most of the gamers here at subsim are older guys as myself (42) and we know what gameplay is. We grew up playing games with 2d graphics learning to appreciate the gameplay. I think that's why many here pounds Silent hunter 4 and 5 because we want more than just looks and simple controls. SH4/5 was a major step backwards compared to SH3. We want gameplay more than anything. Sadly enough, the gameplay hardly work in SH5.

[scrapser]

Submarine simulations are a betwixt and between genre. There's enough interest to garner making the simulation but not enough to make it affordable to produce to completion before release; hence the half-baked strudel and apple pie we keep getting served. I have proposed a solution many times here and hope someone at Ubisoft will eventually adopt the strategy as I think it's really the only solution.

Since this is such a niche market, I really don't understand the over emphasis on piracy prevention. What Ubisoft should be doing is focusing on a way to make sub sim development a formal joint effort...they develop as much as their budget allows, then make the code available to those who would gladly finish the rest. I say make the code available because there are always some things modders cannot fix because it's locked up in the executable files and only the developers can touch. I think this is the biggest stumbling block to get over.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Ragtag

These games will never get an increased number of players/buying customers if they continue to release games that's incomplete and rendered with gamebreaking bugs.

Originally Posted by Drewcifer

Well your not going to get it PERIOD. The amount of players that want to engage in gritty intense RIGHT NOW real life graphics war VASTLY outnumber those that want to invest in a month long patrol in a Uboat.

Chicken or egg. We have been going round and round on this debate for years. We can't get a larger fanbase without a more polished game, which we can't get without a larger fanbase, which we can't get without a more polished game, which we....and on and on and on.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Ragtag

It's the "we accept it" attitude ruining this genre. These games will never get an increased number of players/buying customers if they continue to release games that's incomplete and rendered with gamebreaking bugs.

Well there is not a lot we can do about it. Concerning SH5 we had exactly two choices

1. Buy it and help financially support the submarine simulation business of UBI

2. Refuse to buy it in protest, thereby convincing UBI management that there is not a market for subsims any more and will stop supporting SH5 and not even consider SH6.

Unless we are stockholders in UBI and have the right to vote, we are pretty much at the whim of the producer.

The only thing we can do is "Vote" with our wallets. If we vote no, we may be causing more harm to the Subsim industry than we are helping.

Yeah, it sucks.

[Takao]

Platapus,

That is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard. Buying a POS, because it is a POS, just so that you can have more POS from Ubi.

Sub sims have been around for how long now? IIRC, the first one I played was Gato, back in the mid-80s. That's what almost 30 years ago. Supporting Ubi's half baked games is ridiculous! The only thing your supporting is Ubi producing more crap! They figure that the idiots will pay top dollar for any subsim, no matter how poorly it is done. The release of SHV is a fine example of this. Adding insult to injury they put one of the most draconian DRMs on the game. It is like putting the world's best car alarm on a rusty Pinto!

Maybe, if we don't buy Ubi's crap, they will drop the SH franchise altogether, and then a reputable company will pick it up and start producing better SH games. Look at Battlefront.com or Matrix Games, they are much better companies than Ubi!

Sure, you might not have a subsim every year, but, you will have a better sim than Ubi can produce.

I have so far voted with my wallet, and my $50 is doing very fine in the bank, thank you very much. Sorry, but the poor treatment Ubi gave SHIV has rather soured me on the company.

However, if Ubi shows ongoing support for SHV, I may purchase it in the future. But, given Ubi's track record, I don't see that happening.

Interesting points.

For my part, I have faith that there will always exist a sizable market to justify the creation of a sub sim. If UBIs inability to recognise the franchise's potential is somewhat lacking then maybe it's time for a change.

As has been said before, build it well and they will come.

Till then, my wallet stays in my pocket.

Cheers, UG.

[thyro]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Well there is not a lot we can do about it. Concerning SH5 we had exactly two choices

1. Buy it and help financially support the submarine simulation business of UBI

2. Refuse to buy it in protest, thereby convincing UBI management that there is not a market for subsims any more and will stop supporting SH5 and not even consider SH6.

Unless we are stockholders in UBI and have the right to vote, we are pretty much at the whim of the producer.

The only thing we can do is "Vote" with our wallets. If we vote no, we may be causing more harm to the Subsim industry than we are helping.

Yeah, it sucks.

I suggest a 3rd option

Don't buy and not bothered seeing them in uncontrolled sinking to the dark deep.

[Platapus]

I purchased SH5 when it first came out. I installed it this past weekend.

I would say that your evaluation that it is "unfinished, unpolished" is on the mark. I am not, at this time, ready to say that SH5 is a lemon though.

Like you, I will wait this out.

I can't tell if SH5 will be my favourite of the three current SH games, But I am willing to give it a little more time.

Yeah I am disappointed. But that's about all. It is not gonna ruin my life

[Tarnsman]

It is just this sort of thing that drives the consumer to consols. Plug and play is the name of the game. You shoundt need a patch for somthing that is obvious and a show stopper. I know some will argue that these are compplicated software products and so on, but that is just BS. No matter how true it may be. People want to plug it in, insert the disk and be impressed. Its not too much to ask.

[Drewcifer]

You aren't going to get the popularity of Call of Duty when the game is full of holes.

Well your not going to get it PERIOD. The amount of players that want to engage in gritty intense RIGHT NOW real life graphics war VASTLY outnumber those that want to invest in a month long patrol in a Uboat.

Id suggest rethinking the stand of "we should accept the unfinished product release because we are a small genre" as that is causing this series to stay below the radar. Anyway there is nothing that can be done, the denial of an issue and the acceptance of it will not be done by many of us though... Sorry but get used to it.

That being said yes it hurts recognition when your game is unfinished on release i'm not arguing that one bit. What i'm saying is TINY DEMAND, at some point Ubi is like ok enough money and time spent PUSH IT. That is exactly what happened its basic business. They aren't going to invest time and money in this genre EVER to a level of an AAA title like Call of Duty.