Are you you rooting for failure for SH5?

[Heretic]

Every new bit of information about this game is pounced on by people gleefully picking every nit and smugly predicting SH5 a total failure because it doesn't address their pet issue to their satisfaction. I swear, some people are going to actually be disappointed if the game doesn't suck! Not to mention the DRM freakout. No one has seen anything other than descriptions of unfinished previews and they're ready to write it off. Talk about cutting of your nose to spite your face!

Do you not understand what's at stake? This is likely the best we're ever going to get. There is never going to be a sub sim made for us. It's too expensive and the market is too small. The best we can hope for is a game aimed at the mass market that, underneath, has the realism our community can bring out with mods. Everything I see about this game screams 'potential'. Yeah, it's got a simplified interface, but it has to to bring new people into our hobby. Without new people, our hobby dies.

I'm convinced 'our game' is in there, underneath that 'ease of use' layer, if for no other reason than that it's built on SHIII/IV. They didn't throw away their code and start over.

I'm not saying everyone should be a mindless cheerleader and buy the game no matter what, but for God's sake, if SH5 fails, the franchise is quite likely finished. And with that, this hobby, that means so much to us, is DEAD.

Alright, I figured I'd take my turn at a rant. So now go ahead and call me a fanboy or a sellout or tell me 'moo!' a few more times if it makes you feel better.

[ETR3(SS)]

This is business as usual I'm afraid. It's been like this for the past 3 installments of the game.

I'm pretty confident SH5 can be modded into an excellent sub sim. BUT that can only be of benefit to me if I buy SH5....which I can't whilst it has DRM/OSP/KACK.

I'm voting you see....with the only voice I have, my wallet. Why ? Because I don't like an unnecessary intrusion into my life and DRM is just that.

[TarJak]

I am acutally wanting the game to be a great success. Yes there are somethings that I don't like:

1943 campaign limitation
Only type VII boats
Expected retitiveness of AI character interactions.

However there is one big bugger of an elephant in the room preventing me from wanting to buy the thing and that is the OSP tether. Without OSP SHV is a buy. With OSP it is not.

My reasoning is simple, I don't want to pay AU$90 odd for a game that I cannot play whenever I want regardless of where I am and whether or not I have an internet connection and regardless of whether Ubisoft's server farm exists or not. I can do that now with SH3 and for now at least I will continue to use that game over anything that comes with OSP.

Will I buy it when it gets to bargain bin status in 12 months time? Well that will depend on what I see in the forums and It's simple economics for me. AU$90 is too much to pay for something I don't get freedom of use out of. AU$10 I can live with the tether, but frankly if the games replayability is not there, then it will end up on the shelf like SH4.

And yes Ubi this means I'm not buying any of the other titles that comes with OSP.

Your choice on the other hand is exactly that...

[Rockin Robbins]

Hope it's a success. I'll wait and see if it is before my cash leaves my pocket. I buy winners only.

Until the facts are in I see no reason to cheer or jeer.

[FIREWALL]

I see you as the one to start a crap thread.

[Lanzfeld]

Well I certainly hope the DRM fails. I wont buy it until it does.

As far as the game goes. Fail or not what I really want is a change in the development direction and give me a REALISTIC sim.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Lanzfeld

As far as the game goes. Fail or not what I really want is a change in the development direction and give me a REALISTIC sim.

That is pie in the sky Lanzfeld, no one in their right mind will develop and market a uber realistic naval game. The market is too small and the risks too great. The best we can hope for is something like the SH series, middle level realism to keep the SubNuts happy, but casual enough to appeal to the casual gamers, since you need the casual gamer market to be able to turn a profit on sims.

Consider that SH3, according to Ubi, sold 300,000 units worldwide in total, while "Call of Duty:Modern Warfare 2" sold 4,700,000 units just the FIRST DAY!.....If you were a mass market publisher, where would you invest your money?

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Heretic

Every new bit of information about this game is pounced on by people gleefully picking every nit and smugly predicting SH5 a total failure because it doesn't address their pet issue to their satisfaction. I swear, some people are going to actually be disappointed if the game doesn't suck! Not to mention the DRM freakout. No one has seen anything other than descriptions of unfinished previews and they're ready to write it off. Talk about cutting of your nose to spite your face!

I don't know of anyone who is writing this game off. There is a small contingent of people who are choosing to use their freedom of choice not to purchase this game while it has this specific type of DRM. These people are not hoping for SH5 to fail, they are hoping for Ubi to decide to get rid of this form of DRM.

Others on this forum have expressed desires, opinions, concerns, and fears concerning SH5, but I have not read any comments where anyone is wishing SH5 were to fail. In fact, many of us are worried that SH5 may fail and we are not happy with it.

Do you not understand what's at stake? This is likely the best we're ever going to get. There is never going to be a sub sim made for us. It's too expensive and the market is too small. The best we can hope for is a game aimed at the mass market that, underneath, has the realism our community can bring out with mods. Everything I see about this game screams 'potential'. Yeah, it's got a simplified interface, but it has to to bring new people into our hobby. Without new people, our hobby dies.

Thats all well and good for the new people who will be experiencing their first Sub Sim game. But we, the more experienced subsimers, are also part of the community. Sure we want to attract new players, but we want to attract new players who want a high realism simulator, not just any new player. Ubi may only be interested in any new player ( short term $$$).

Suppose one were to take any sport like basketball. It is a highly skilled game. Suppose we all here were experienced basketball players. Suddenly one of the sports equipment manufactures wanted to expand the customer base for basketball and decided to make basket ball hoops that were five times bigger around and only 6 feet off the ground. This to encourage new customers who have never played basketball or tried in the past and found it too difficult. How would you feel about this, as an experienced basketball player? You would probably say, no thanks, what that is is not basketball.

That is how some of us feel about SH5. We like the intellectual stimulation of the simulation, not just the graphic stimulation. Ubi is to blame for this for it was Ubi who choose not to release information about aspects of the game that would appeal to the more experienced sim lover but chose to release information about aspects of the game that would appeal to more graphic eye candy motivated players.

You are right, the game is not out yet. All we have to go on is what Ubi chooses to tell us. If Ubi chooses not to release specific aspects of the game that interest us, we, as only human, will base our initial impressions on what we know about the game. It is not fair, nor is it logical, but it is human.

I'm convinced 'our game' is in there, underneath that 'ease of use' layer, if for no other reason than that it's built on SHIII/IV. They didn't throw away their code and start over.

I'm not saying everyone should be a mindless cheerleader and buy the game no matter what, but for God's sake, if SH5 fails, the franchise is quite likely finished. And with that, this hobby, that means so much to us, is DEAD.

We should not be mindless cheerleaders, nor should we be opinion-less customers either. This is, after all, an internet chat forum where people are empowered to post their opinions. Even if SH5 fails, it does not mean the franchise is dead. The SH franchise was not dead after SH2. And there is more to game design than Ubi. I think it is a bit dramatic to declare that SH5 is our last hope.



PS Fanboy, sellout, Moo.

[BarjackU977]

Exactly!

Originally Posted by Platapus

I don't know of anyone who is writing this game off. There is a small contingent of people who are choosing to use their freedom of choice not to purchase this game while it has this specific type of DRM. These people are not hoping for SH5 to fail, they are hoping for Ubi to decide to get rid of this form of DRM.

Others on this forum have expressed desires, opinions, concerns, and fears concerning SH5, but I have not read any comments where anyone is wishing SH5 were to fail. In fact, many of us are worried that SH5 may fail and we are not happy with it.

[Lord Justice]

Originally Posted by Heretic

I swear, some people are going to actually be disappointed if the game doesn't suck! Not to mention the DRM freakout. No one has seen anything other than descriptions of unfinished previews and they're ready to write it off. Talk about cutting of your nose to spite your face!

Do you not understand what's at stake?



So now go ahead and call me a fanboy or a sellout or tell me 'moo!' a few more times if it makes you feel better.

Sir Heretic, calm if you please, it has just been knocked about a little, perhaps in your view by stern ruffians, but giving it a mere bloody nose helps release some pressure. You seem a fine man with good intentions, so share a brandy and try to enjoy the sail, no matter how some these hasty scowls may present, try ask ones self, is it anothers purpose to dim my lot? are they merely sounding out their concerns and opinions also, of which perhaps differs to mine? As for calling you names !! rather you asked first old boy, but that would not be sensible. Good Day

[matsterman]

Short Term: FAIL
Long Term: Major Success.

The only reason this game will fail will be the DRM. It's ridiculous to go into a sale thinking that all your customers are CRIMINALS.

Piracy losses are sooo overblown. 99 percent of pirates will never buy the game, and if they ever do, it will be used off of ebay or some other source. Or, they will wait until it is marked down to $15 and buy it then.

But, while the DRM is attached, NO WAY WILL I TOUCH THIS MOTHER.

[CaptainHaplo]

I stated before that I will not purchase the game with OSP.

But that does NOT mean I want the game to fail. I want it to succeed - but I also don't want the intrusiveness that it currently being bundled in it. Ideally - OSP would fall off the table, a less intrusive DRM would be used, and then SH5 would outsell WoW. But we don't live in an ideal world. So OSP will ship - it will cost customers, at some point a decision will be made to remove the OSP (either due to lack of initial sales - or cost of server uptime) - and then SH5 sales will spike. Hopefully when that occurs, Ubi will get the picture.

[Heretic]

Originally Posted by 4Para

Sir Heretic, calm if you please, it has just been knocked about a little, perhaps in your view by stern ruffians, but giving it a mere bloody nose helps release some pressure. You seem a fine man with good intentions, so share a brandy and try to enjoy the sail, no matter how some these hasty scowls may present, try ask ones self, is it anothers purpose to dim my lot? are they merely sounding out their concerns and opinions also, of which perhaps differs to mine? As for calling you names !! rather you asked first old boy, but that would not be sensible. Good Day

It was just my turn to rant. I wasn't really meaning the DRM stuff as much as the nitpicking. We all feel strongly about this stuff because we do care how it turns out. I feel much better now that I've had a couple beers and will soon have bit of a lie down with the missus which tends to improve my attitude greatly!

Cheers!

[frenema]

Ubisoft is not a football team, they're a company that does business. That means if they don't deliver what the customers want, they'll suffer for it. Whether we like their games or not is depended on what they put out, not the other way around.