Could a minaret start a war?

geetrue · 12-05-09, 03:59 PM

Iran upset with Switzerland over minarets

Could these things cause a war?

The Swiss have about 200 mosque places for muslims to attend, but only four have these siren things that call them to worship.

I wonder who will give in first?

Oberon · 12-05-09, 04:01 PM

I dunno, rocket motor in the bottom, warhead in the top. Could be more reliable than a Taepongdo

CaptainHaplo · 12-05-09, 04:30 PM

The article referenced the European Courts as a way to overturn the will of the swiss people.

If pursued, I wonder what the citizenry will do? I can't pretend to know the swiss mind, so can someone who knows throw out some ideas? Will they allow their national sovereignty to be so trampled and over-run?

Thomen · 12-05-09, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

The article referenced the European Courts as a way to overturn the will of the swiss people.

If pursued, I wonder what the citizenry will do? I can't pretend to know the swiss mind, so can someone who knows throw out some ideas? Will they allow their national sovereignty to be so trampled and over-run?

Even though the Foreign Minister seems to indicate that it would on the European court to decide, the Swiss people can still flip everybody the bird, because Switzerland is not part of the EU.

Respenus · 12-05-09, 06:34 PM

Gentleman, I'd advise you read up on your European institutions a bit. The European Court of Human Rights is part of the Council of Europe and it was set to protect the European Convention on Human Rights and it has the power to decide, under the Convention and other rules, if some action is in compliance with human rights. Now, what must be noted is that the ECHR has no power to force a state to do something, like the European Court of Justice can under the EU founding treaties. Yet a state which does not comply with the decisions of the ECHR is considered "rogue" and its position in international relations suffers until it complies.

I must say, for the first time ever, I wish a state not to comply with ECHR decisions. Although one must not arbitrarily chose to apply the rules when it serves his purposes.

CaptainHaplo · 12-05-09, 07:16 PM

Respensus - thank you for that info. I was assuming that there could be issues should the courts decide against the swiss and they didn't comply, but that then begins to open the door to other questions. Such as, if the swiss DID lift a middle finger, would other European nations really act as if they were rogue?

My current understanding of the geopolitical situation in europe has been something I have neglected of late. May need to remedy that. But often it takes one leader- be it a person or nation - to show they will not roll over, and others may follow suit. Are European citizens, in a nationalistic way - ready for such a thing? If so, it could ultimately mean the dissolution - or at least significant weakening of, the EU.

Thoughts?

nikimcbee · 12-06-09, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geetrue

Iran upset with Switzerland over minarets

Could these things cause a war?

The Swiss have about 200 mosque places for muslims to attend, but only four have these siren things that call them to worship.

I wonder who will give in first?

Wow, if iran gets upset, Switzerland could just turn off the money spigot. Problem solved. Even better they could seize the accounts and donate them to some nice holocast charity.

12-06-09, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Wow, if iran gets upset, Switzerland could just turn off the money spigot. Problem solved. Even better they could seize the accounts and donate them to some nice holocast charity.

Switzerland siezes accounts and donates them to charity??????
They are still fighting tooth and nail to avoid handing over the money the Nazis robbed from the Jews.

Stealth Hunter · 12-06-09, 04:56 PM

Actually Tribesman does have a point. The Swiss took a lot of the German wealth after the war ended, not all of it being gold, valuable paintings, loot in general. The medical experiments the Germans conducted on Jews were studied and documented by Swiss physicians (including Dr. Alois Raesch), particularly ones dealing with blood flow, changes in pressure, hypothermia, poison, saline solutions, and various diseases; Dachau was a favorite place to visit by them.

Here's a few photographs of the high-altitude/pressure experiments the Germans carried out (the last one is of a hypothermia study; note the subject is dressed as a Luftwaffe flier):

The first two aren't dead, just so you know. They've simply blacked out. I doubt very much they survived in the end though.

I don't think they ever bothered to investigate the Japanese and their medical experiments, probably because the Germans received and shared information with them that they gained. Most of us I assume have heard of Unit 731 and some of the horrible things they did to the Chinese, which they regarded as "firewood".

Furthermore, if Switzerland did "turn off the money spigot", Iran would simply stop giving them oil, or cut their exports drastically. The good thing, however, is that the Swiss leaders are not that moronic; the trouble in reality is simply that these nationalists stirring up hate between the ethnic groups. But they're hardly going to be any problem in the long run. If the EU doesn't intervene then the European Islamic community certainly won't hesitate to do so, as they've demonstrated now through their vocal protests and in the past. Should it come to violence, which I don't think it will on a large scale (but I'm not saying it's impossible), they'd best be prepared for a hard fight.

Skybird · 12-06-09, 07:06 PM

http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/a...inaretten.html

The dhimmis in Switzerland are mobilizing, and copy the Eurocrats' winning tactic on the Lisbon dictate: Swiss liberals (the party) prepare a new referendum that should reverse the first one and make the minaretts legal again.

Send them voting until you get the vote you want.

Interesting understanding of what a majority vote means in a democracy. First the EU (repeated offender), now this.

What was it that Bertold Brecht wrote?

Quote:

"After the uprising of the 17th June
The Secretary of the Writers Union
Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could win it back only
By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?"

This poem bases on a real event, reported by a GDR fugitive claiming to be an eye witness, that saw Brecht attending an assembly and protesting the violent suppression of the rebellion on the 17th of June, then he raised and said

Quote:

"Ich habe eine Resolution vorzuschlagen. Da sich herausgestellt hat, daß unser Volk eine dumme Hammelherde ist, empfehlen wir der Regierung, sich ein anderes Volk zu wählen."

12-06-09, 08:36 PM

Voting in a referendum is a very important part of the Democratic Process, and in turn Freedom.

It's interesting to see how many EU supporters want to see that process abolished, even in non-EU countries.
When an Appointed Court can over-ride the Democratic Process, Freedom is lost, and a new Dictatership has gained control.

12-05-09, 03:59 PM	#1
geetrue Cold War Boomer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Walla Walla Posts: 2,837 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Could a minaret start a war? Iran upset with Switzerland over minarets Could these things cause a war? The Swiss have about 200 mosque places for muslims to attend, but only four have these siren things that call them to worship. I wonder who will give in first? __________________

12-05-09, 04:30 PM	#3
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	The article referenced the European Courts as a way to overturn the will of the swiss people. If pursued, I wonder what the citizenry will do? I can't pretend to know the swiss mind, so can someone who knows throw out some ideas? Will they allow their national sovereignty to be so trampled and over-run? __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

12-05-09, 06:34 PM	#5
Respenus Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,169 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Gentleman, I'd advise you read up on your European institutions a bit. The European Court of Human Rights is part of the Council of Europe and it was set to protect the European Convention on Human Rights and it has the power to decide, under the Convention and other rules, if some action is in compliance with human rights. Now, what must be noted is that the ECHR has no power to force a state to do something, like the European Court of Justice can under the EU founding treaties. Yet a state which does not comply with the decisions of the ECHR is considered "rogue" and its position in international relations suffers until it complies. I must say, for the first time ever, I wish a state *not* to comply with ECHR decisions. Although one must not arbitrarily chose to apply the rules when it serves his purposes. __________________

12-05-09, 07:16 PM	#6
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Respensus - thank you for that info. I was assuming that there could be issues should the courts decide against the swiss and they didn't comply, but that then begins to open the door to other questions. Such as, if the swiss DID lift a middle finger, would other European nations really act as if they were rogue? My current understanding of the geopolitical situation in europe has been something I have neglected of late. May need to remedy that. But often it takes one leader- be it a person or nation - to show they will not roll over, and others may follow suit. Are European citizens, in a nationalistic way - ready for such a thing? If so, it could ultimately mean the dissolution - or at least significant weakening of, the EU. Thoughts? __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

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12-05-09, 04:01 PM	#2
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	I dunno, rocket motor in the bottom, warhead in the top. Could be more reliable than a Taepongdo

12-06-09, 04:56 PM	#9
Stealth Hunter Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Y'ha-Nthlei Posts: 4,262 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Actually Tribesman does have a point. The Swiss took a lot of the German wealth after the war ended, not all of it being gold, valuable paintings, loot in general. The medical experiments the Germans conducted on Jews were studied and documented by Swiss physicians (including Dr. Alois Raesch), particularly ones dealing with blood flow, changes in pressure, hypothermia, poison, saline solutions, and various diseases; Dachau was a favorite place to visit by them. Here's a few photographs of the high-altitude/pressure experiments the Germans carried out (the last one is of a hypothermia study; note the subject is dressed as a Luftwaffe flier): The first two aren't dead, just so you know. They've simply blacked out. I doubt very much they survived in the end though. I don't think they ever bothered to investigate the Japanese and their medical experiments, probably because the Germans received and shared information with them that they gained. Most of us I assume have heard of Unit 731 and some of the horrible things they did to the Chinese, which they regarded as "firewood". Furthermore, if Switzerland did "turn off the money spigot", Iran would simply stop giving them oil, or cut their exports drastically. The good thing, however, is that the Swiss leaders are not that moronic; the trouble in reality is simply that these nationalists stirring up hate between the ethnic groups. But they're hardly going to be any problem in the long run. If the EU doesn't intervene then the European Islamic community certainly won't hesitate to do so, as they've demonstrated now through their vocal protests and in the past. Should it come to violence, which I don't think it will on a large scale (but I'm not saying it's impossible), they'd best be prepared for a hard fight.

12-06-09, 08:36 PM	#11
Snestorm Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Voting in a referendum is a very important part of the Democratic Process, and in turn Freedom. It's interesting to see how many EU supporters want to see that process abolished, even in non-EU countries. When an Appointed Court can over-ride the Democratic Process, Freedom is lost, and a new Dictatership has gained control.