Karachi Bay

NFunky · 10-01-09, 09:54 PM

Hey all, sorry to be creating all these new threads, but now that I've really started getting into DW I have a lot of different things on my mind. I was thinking of putting this in the mission designer's sub-forum, but I don't know if anyone looks at that anymore and though this has to do with a new mission I'm building, it's a pretty general question.

I'm wondering where to look on the internet for information about Karachi Bay. I'm trying to make a fairly realistic modern-day mission so I want the environment to be reasonably accurate. I'd like to get as many conditions based on reality as possible, stuff like bottom type, currents, common winds, SSP, and common biologics. General information about shipping and other civilian traffic in and around Karachi Port would be nice too, but I feel a little more comfortable making that stuff up. Obviously any non-classified info about military ship and air patrols in the area would be great.

My mission is going to be a peacetime mission involving an Indian Kilo Improved causing some covert (or maybe not so covert) trouble in Karachi Port/Bay. I haven't decided exactly what I want the objectives to be, but I figured I'd start by building a comprehensive environment template which I could use for multiple missions.

Any help would be great, but I understand this is not as riveting a topic as my other ones.

Bill Nichols · 10-02-09, 06:53 PM

Try this link:

http://www.urckarachi.org/IEE_Study_...oject_(ii).pdf

Also these:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ns-karachi.htm

http://www.geocities.com/rehan_22pk/41.1.htm

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Port_of_Karachi

NFunky · 10-02-09, 11:28 PM

WOW, thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for, even had a list of biologics. May I ask, how did you find it?

I'm now actually thinking about maybe centering the mission around Jinnah Naval Base at Ormara instead of Karachi since that seems to be the 21st century naval port of choice. Also, there would be somewhat less surface traffic which would make the scenario slightly easier to play with no auto-crew. Do you think it would be accurate enough to use the environmental information from the document you provided for Jinnah? If not, is there a similar type of environmental report for Ormara?

Thanks again for the link Bill, I really appreciate it.

Bill Nichols · 10-03-09, 07:39 AM

Google is your friend.

I did searches under:

Karachi hydrography

Karachi harbor

Karachi shipping statistics

15-minutes and I was done.

As to Ormara, it's only about 100-miles down the coast, I'd be comfortable using the Karachi info. The only significant difference I can see is that, unlike Karachi, Ormara is not at the mouth of a major river system, so I'd expect to find less silt on the bottom (i.e., sandy instead of muddy).

NFunky · 10-03-09, 07:35 PM

Really appreciate it. I'm in the process of building the scenario.

The plot is something like... Pakistan is in the process of moving all its submarines from Karachi to Ormara and they will most likely make the transit submerged. Tensions have been getting very high between India and Pakistan and India sees this as an opportunity to reduce Pakistan's naval capabilities while maintaining deniability. It will be a long mission with the player's Improved Kilo starting pretty far away from both ports leaving the player free to decide where the best place to intercept the Pak subs is. Pak subs will come to comms depth on a regular interval, so all subs must be destroyed while running deep and incommunicado. I'll add some maritime patrol aircraft and maybe a warship or two, but ROE will be peacetime. I want counterdetection to be a fail goal, but I'd also like it to be possible for an enemy sub to detect me without failing the mission as long as I kill it. I'm not sure this goal structure is possible, but I'll work something out.

Bill Nichols · 10-04-09, 08:52 AM

Are you planning to include India's new nuclear subs?

(The Akula II they are getting from Russia plus the home-built nuke, similar to an Akula, that should begin sea trials in the next couple of years).

You might also consider having some Chinese ships or subs around to protect the Pak navy.

If you really want to go crazy, include a Russian-built aircraft carrier under Indian flag.

goldorak · 10-04-09, 12:35 PM

NFunky : once you've got the scenario up and running, don't forget to make it available (if you want of course) to other DW players.
Maybe by uploading your mission on subguru's website.

10-01-09, 09:54 PM	#1
NFunky Machinist's Mate Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 127 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Karachi Bay Hey all, sorry to be creating all these new threads, but now that I've really started getting into DW I have a lot of different things on my mind. I was thinking of putting this in the mission designer's sub-forum, but I don't know if anyone looks at that anymore and though this has to do with a new mission I'm building, it's a pretty general question. I'm wondering where to look on the internet for information about Karachi Bay. I'm trying to make a fairly realistic modern-day mission so I want the environment to be reasonably accurate. I'd like to get as many conditions based on reality as possible, stuff like bottom type, currents, common winds, SSP, and common biologics. General information about shipping and other civilian traffic in and around Karachi Port would be nice too, but I feel a little more comfortable making that stuff up. Obviously any non-classified info about military ship and air patrols in the area would be great. My mission is going to be a peacetime mission involving an Indian Kilo Improved causing some covert (or maybe not so covert) trouble in Karachi Port/Bay. I haven't decided exactly what I want the objectives to be, but I figured I'd start by building a comprehensive environment template which I could use for multiple missions. Any help would be great, but I understand this is not as riveting a topic as my other ones.

10-02-09, 06:53 PM	#2
Bill Nichols Master of Defense Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,502 Downloads: 125 Uploads: 0	Try this link: http://www.urckarachi.org/IEE_Study_...oject_(ii).pdf Also these: http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ns-karachi.htm http://www.geocities.com/rehan_22pk/41.1.htm http://wapedia.mobi/en/Port_of_Karachi __________________ My Dangerous Waters website:

10-03-09, 07:39 AM	#4
Bill Nichols Master of Defense Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,502 Downloads: 125 Uploads: 0	Google is your friend. I did searches under: Karachi hydrography Karachi harbor Karachi shipping statistics 15-minutes and I was done. As to Ormara, it's only about 100-miles down the coast, I'd be comfortable using the Karachi info. The only significant difference I can see is that, unlike Karachi, Ormara is not at the mouth of a major river system, so I'd expect to find less silt on the bottom (i.e., sandy instead of muddy). __________________ My Dangerous Waters website: Last edited by Bill Nichols; 10-03-09 at 08:01 AM.

10-04-09, 08:52 AM	#6
Bill Nichols Master of Defense Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,502 Downloads: 125 Uploads: 0	Are you planning to include India's new nuclear subs? (The Akula II they are getting from Russia plus the home-built nuke, similar to an Akula, that should begin sea trials in the next couple of years). You might also consider having some Chinese ships or subs around to protect the Pak navy. If you really want to go crazy, include a Russian-built aircraft carrier under Indian flag. __________________ My Dangerous Waters website:

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

10-02-09, 11:28 PM	#3
NFunky Machinist's Mate Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 127 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	WOW, thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for, even had a list of biologics. May I ask, how did you find it? I'm now actually thinking about maybe centering the mission around Jinnah Naval Base at Ormara instead of Karachi since that seems to be the 21st century naval port of choice. Also, there would be somewhat less surface traffic which would make the scenario slightly easier to play with no auto-crew. Do you think it would be accurate enough to use the environmental information from the document you provided for Jinnah? If not, is there a similar type of environmental report for Ormara? Thanks again for the link Bill, I really appreciate it.

10-03-09, 07:35 PM	#5
NFunky Machinist's Mate Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 127 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Really appreciate it. I'm in the process of building the scenario. The plot is something like... Pakistan is in the process of moving all its submarines from Karachi to Ormara and they will most likely make the transit submerged. Tensions have been getting very high between India and Pakistan and India sees this as an opportunity to reduce Pakistan's naval capabilities while maintaining deniability. It will be a long mission with the player's Improved Kilo starting pretty far away from both ports leaving the player free to decide where the best place to intercept the Pak subs is. Pak subs will come to comms depth on a regular interval, so all subs must be destroyed while running deep and incommunicado. I'll add some maritime patrol aircraft and maybe a warship or two, but ROE will be peacetime. I want counterdetection to be a fail goal, but I'd also like it to be possible for an enemy sub to detect me without failing the mission as long as I kill it. I'm not sure this goal structure is possible, but I'll work something out.

10-04-09, 12:35 PM	#7
goldorak Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,320 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	NFunky : once you've got the scenario up and running, don't forget to make it available (if you want of course) to other DW players. Maybe by uploading your mission on subguru's website.