Is Obama beginning to 'get it' "debt unsustainable"

[SteamWake]

President Barack Obama, calling current deficit spending “unsustainable,” warned of skyrocketing interest rates for consumers if the U.S. continues to finance government by borrowing from other countries.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...efer=worldwide

[Aramike]

Clearly, as some point he'd have to get it. Unfortunately, his "getting it" seems to me as though he's covering his ass for spending so much damned money that we don't have.

I still get a little sick to my stomach when I do the math and see was coming. The US will be fine, of course (our production power can be unparellelled when need-be), but the period of economic transition will be quite nasty.

[Dowly]

You know what's eating your money? Afghanistan & Iraq. AFAIK, the military budget for operations in the middle-east got ~90 billion dollars bonus. Half of that money goes to Pakistan to be used to fight the taliban/al-Qaida there and the rest goes to Afgh/Iraq. IIRC, Bush gave more and more money to the military ops in Afgh/Iraq regularely after 9/11. Has anything changed there? Nope.

I'm actually abit surprised I havent seen the military budget brought up before, it's eating unnecessary cash atm.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Dowly

You know what's eating your money? Afghanistan & Iraq. AFAIK, the military budget for operations in the middle-east got ~90 billion dollars bonus. Half of that money goes to Pakistan to be used to fight the taliban/al-Qaida there and the rest goes to Afgh/Iraq. IIRC, Bush gave more and more money to the military ops in Afgh/Iraq regularely after 9/11. Has anything changed there? Nope.

I'm actually abit surprised I havent seen the military budget brought up before, it's eating unnecessary cash atm.

A lot of that money ends up in the hands of private citizens and businesses, which actually serves to help the situation.

Besides, compared to the so-called "stimulus", it's a large drop in the bucket (in annual cost) - and that drop goes largly to business.

What does piss me off about Iraq is that we should be confiscating some of the oil. With all of those people biching about "No Blood for Oil" over the years, I'm a tad irritated that we haven't taken any to compensate.

As far as whether anything has changed in Iraq/Afghanistan - I'd suggest you look to history for some perspective. Everything has changed.

Yes, the areas are unstable at best - however, this is a common demoninator of all major revolutions.

[Dowly]

@Aramike

May I ask, to compensate what you think part of the oil should be confiscated?

[CaptainHaplo]

Dowly, we not only overthrew a repressive, murdering dictator and GAVE them their country back, we currently are spending OUR money to help them stay safe in their streets and keep their duly elected by the people government in place as it continues to try and stabilize itself.

This does not even count the cost of the lives we have spent, not just in deaths, but in injuries that cannot be healed by medicine today.

Maybe a little appreciation in the form of resources they have, that we need, freely SHARED (as we have shared our blood and money) in thanks would be nice for once.

Its not widely known but when Kuwait was freed, the ruling family offered to pay every single soldier that participated a hefty sum - in thanks for freeing their country. Bush 1 said no - he was afraid it would make us appear as mercenaries. Our economy was doing ok at the time. These days are different - and while Iraqi parliment members CONTINUE to fight over how oil revenues will be distributed, our men and women fight and die, with resources we provided.

I dunno, think maybe there is a bit of moral debt there?

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Dowly

@Aramike

May I ask, to compensate what you think part of the oil should be confiscated?

Well it sure as hell wasent our own. For some reason we cant tap our own resources... go figure.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Dowly

You know what's eating your money? Afghanistan & Iraq. AFAIK, the military budget for operations in the middle-east got ~90 billion dollars bonus. Half of that money goes to Pakistan to be used to fight the taliban/al-Qaida there and the rest goes to Afgh/Iraq. IIRC, Bush gave more and more money to the military ops in Afgh/Iraq regularely after 9/11. Has anything changed there? Nope.

Oh, I'd say things there have changed a bit.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Dowly, we not only overthrew a repressive, murdering dictator and GAVE them their country back, we currently are spending OUR money to help them stay safe in their streets and keep their duly elected by the people government in place as it continues to try and stabilize itself.

Don't lose sight of how the USA backed Sadaam, and helped to ensure his control of the country to keep the Soviets out. We helped to make Iraq what it was! Yes, Sadaam was a cruel tyrant, but that is what it took to keep the country whole as we're finding out like it or not. Also, before Sadaam, Iraq was controlled by the British for many, many years. The educated people want their independance. The uneducated are manipulated and religiously intolerant. How do you win against those who believe they have a God given right to murder infidels? Very tough problem given the tools of modern warfare.

Buddahaid

[Stealth Hunter]

The funny thing of it is, to respond to Budda's post, is that these terrorists really have never needed supplies from anyone. Most of them were members of the Mujahideen, a fanatic group of rebels who, when Russia invaded the Middle East, stood up against them (really, though, the name is an Arabic word meaning "strugglers"). The United States and most of the European nations agreed to support these rebels with arms, equipment, and money. So really, they're just reusing what we gave them a few decades ago lol.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Dowly

@Aramike

May I ask, to compensate what you think part of the oil should be confiscated?

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking...

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Dowly, we not only overthrew a repressive, murdering dictator and GAVE them their country back, we currently are spending OUR money to help them stay safe in their streets and keep their duly elected by the people government in place as it continues to try and stabilize itself.

This does not even count the cost of the lives we have spent, not just in deaths, but in injuries that cannot be healed by medicine today.

Maybe a little appreciation in the form of resources they have, that we need, freely SHARED (as we have shared our blood and money) in thanks would be nice for once.

Its not widely known but when Kuwait was freed, the ruling family offered to pay every single soldier that participated a hefty sum - in thanks for freeing their country. Bush 1 said no - he was afraid it would make us appear as mercenaries. Our economy was doing ok at the time. These days are different - and while Iraqi parliment members CONTINUE to fight over how oil revenues will be distributed, our men and women fight and die, with resources we provided.

I dunno, think maybe there is a bit of moral debt there?

You know Haplo, even though we may disagree mightily on some issues, I do enjoy how we often agree on a great many things as you tend to do an outstanding job at making your perspective clear.

Well it sure as hell wasent our own. For some reason we cant tap our own resources... go figure.

So true, Steamwake.

[CaptainHaplo]

Thank you Aramike, and I would say the same.

Buddahaid, yes we helped backed Saddam at one point. Thats fact, but it doesn't change a thing. Everybody makes mistakes. We had slavery at one point too. So somehow the errors of those before us somehow should mean that we, who were not responsible for the error, still must shoulder the blame?

If one were to take your argument seriously, you could claim that any living american today is responsible for the entire current mess of the middle east, because the US was a part of helping to create israel, because we helped keep afghanistan free from the soviets, because we didn't support the Shah in Iran in what - 73 I think it was - as well as supporting guys like saddam 40 or so years back.

I don't know if your from the US, or how old you are, but if your from the US, go ask a high schooler or college kid about how responsible they feel for that whole mess. While your at it, ask them how they are going to repay the debts of slavery, the losses in life and property to the British Crown due to the war of Independance, etc etc etc. While we are at it, ask them when they are going to give the american indians their country back...

*BTW - I don't use the term Native American - because I am one - I was born in the US and thus am a "NATIVE" and an American. Blasted PC Culture be damned!

At some point you have to stop wringing your hands over the past and move forward. Be responsible for your own actions, thats often enough a challenge for most people.