were all deck guns mounted aft as standard equipt?

as the title says, were all deck guns mounted aft as standard equipt?

there are some subs in the game with front mounted deck guns. i never paid much attention to this but what is the correct setup to represent the standard setup as built?

now im not talking about upgrades and ad ons but just the way they went out to sea for duty assignments.

[Torplexed]

Straight out of the shipyard submarines usually had no guns whatsoever. Armament was fitted later and varied considerably, depending on availability and the captain's preference as to location. It has been said that no two fleet subs were exactly alike in this respect.

USS Robalo shortly after launching sans guns.

[Tempest555]

LAGARTO came from the same yard with one aft. But was sunk with one fore and aft. I suppose it was captains preference and, area of operation and the likelihood of what targets might be encountered (Destroyer escorted small convoys vs very small 'sea trucks')
LAGARTO's layout is obvious in this link.
http://www.thaiwreckdiver.com/lagarto.htm

Originally Posted by Torplexed

Straight out of the shipyard submarines usually had no guns whatsoever. Armament was fitted later and varied considerably, depending on availability and the captain's preference as to location. It has been said that no two fleet subs were exactly alike in this respect.

my error, i edited out the shipyard part because as you pointed out many were still unfitted with guns at that point.

[tater]

Beofre the end of '42 most all were aft. After that, almost all moved forward I think.

Originally Posted by tater

Beofre the end of '42 most all were aft. After that, almost all moved forward I think.

well someone suggested i add a fix to my mod so all deck guns on fleet subs were aft as they should be to be historically accurate.

i didnt know for sure but im thinking it was mostly true but i just didnt know.

do you think its worth doing in the game to follow the historical patterns?

[Deep Six]

Funny thing is if you play TMO then a Porpoise class sub has a Bow mounted gun, It's the other way round for RFB where you get an Aft facing gun. I actually prefer an Aft facing gun because I'm always being chased!!, plus it doesn't take much to maneuver the boat to get the gun to fire "Over" the Con, at wounded ships that don't fire back!!


Maybe it would be great to include the option at start up if a gun is available where you the skipper would like it's placement..Could this be done??

Cheers

Deep Six

[tater]

The reality is while it is mostly true that up til the end of '42 they were all aft, and afterwards they were forward, this was not always the case. They had hardpoints to mount them in both places.

One big problem with the guns behind the fairwater was the route for passing ammo. Apparently the risk of being swept overboard going aft was significantly higher.

<shrug>

[peabody]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

I actually prefer an Aft facing gun because I'm always being chased!!


Maybe it would be great to include the option at start up if a gun is available where you the skipper would like it's placement..Could this be done??

Cheers

Deep Six

I prefer a foreward mount, I am always on the attack.

But most of them do offer an upgrade to fore or aft as a choise sooner or later in the game.

Peabody

Originally Posted by Deep Six

Funny thing is if you play TMO then a Porpoise class sub has a Bow mounted gun, It's the other way round for RFB where you get an Aft facing gun. I actually prefer an Aft facing gun because I'm always being chased!!, plus it doesn't take much to maneuver the boat to get the gun to fire "Over" the Con, at wounded ships that don't fire back!!


Maybe it would be great to include the option at start up if a gun is available where you the skipper would like it's placement..Could this be done??

Cheers

Deep Six

im not really sure

i guess you could remove the guns altogether and then you would have to upgrade to the gun and put it where you wanted it, but im purely guessing here. does anyone know how this works?

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by tater

They had hardpoints to mount them in both places.

I don't believe that's correct. The second gun mountings were added at the same time as the second guns were. The only future proofing in place regarding gun mounts was they were designed, on Admiral Christie's order, to be capable of taking a 5" gun, so no replacement of the mount was necessary to upgrade.

so i ask once more, if i mounted all deck guns aft on all fleet subs as standard default setup would it be considered historically accurate to do so.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

so i ask once more, if i mounted all deck guns aft on all fleet subs as standard default setup would it be considered historically accurate to do so.

For some classes yes, others, no, especially after mid-1943. For instance, all of the Porpoise class boats either had their 3" gun moved forward or replaced by a forward-facing 4" gun. Only one boat of the Salmon class had an aft-facing deck gun after 1943 (USS Salmon, 4"/50, fitted September 1944).

The overwhelming consensus was that a forward mount was a far better location than an aft mounting.

thanks guys, that clears it up.

[LtCdrTwilley]

Ok,

Hopefully this is the answer you're looking for. Yes it was primarily up to the captain what he wanted to to put where. It also depended on the class. What I can help with are Balao Class Fleet Boat questions. LtCdr O'Kane mounted his 3" forward. He later regretted this on the Tang's 4th patrol when he couldn't bring the gun to bear on his target as he was running from a sub chaser. I know for a fact that the Batfish had her 3" mounted forward. When all of the boats recieved their 5" guns, special weldment deck extensions had to be placed around the gun to allow room for the crew to move. There wasn't room forward for these mods as they would interfere with the two ammo lockers under the deck forward of the sail so all 5" guns were mounted aft.


Note in this picture just after the 5" was removed from the Batfish at the end of the war, you can still see the deck mod aft of the sail.

Just as an extra, AA guns were the same way. They were mounted per the preference of the skipper. I've found that as the 40mm's became more readily available, they would place the first one (in most cases the only one) on the forward gun platform with the 20mm Oerlikon mounted on the after cigarette deck. The reason being that with the deck gun being mounted aft of the sail, a large caliber gun could still be brought to bear on a target no matter where it was.

The best form of research you can do is to pull up your boat's patrol logs. Before and/or after each patrol, they list what refits and mods were made to the boat.

On a side note, if any of you modders out there want to build a completely accurate paint scheme, let me know. I have the original orders issued from ComSubPac to the squadron commanders on EXACTLY how they were to be painted in '44. This paint scheme held up until after the war. It even gives diagrams on where to put what color.

I'm a veteran and a historian at a sub museum (the U.S.S. Batfish) and the inaccurate paint drives me crazy.

If there are any historical questions that you might have, feel free to email me at sgttwilley@yahoo.com. I can help you do a little research but I'll warn you. I'm in the middle east currently so my response might be a little slow.