Are these shells?

Letum · 08-28-08, 10:02 AM

Are those copper coloured things round the gun area shells?
Thankyou for any help.

KeptinCranky · 08-28-08, 10:28 AM

Since it's a shielded gun and not a full turret I'd say yes.
What manner of ship is that?

Oberon · 08-28-08, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptinCranky

Since it's a shielded gun and not a full turret I'd say yes.
What manner of ship is that?

From the linkname I'm guessing Flower Class

Letum · 08-28-08, 10:32 AM

Thanks.
It is a Flower Class.

Oberon · 08-28-08, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letum

Thanks.
It is a Flower Class.

Nice looking model, any other pics? Gotta love the Flowers, despite the fact that they'd roll on wet grass...

Letum · 08-28-08, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letum

Thanks.
It is a Flower Class.

Nice looking model, any other pics? Gotta love the Flowers, despite the fact that they'd roll on wet grass...

The Flower class seams to be one of the most modeled and photographed ships.
http://www.cbrnp.com/RNP/Flower/

If you look around the site you will also find a VIIC surfacing just before it sank
after depth charging by a flower, followed by 3-4 survivors being picked up.

KeptinCranky · 08-28-08, 12:08 PM

That does seem a fairly unsafe way to stow live shells in a combat situation though :hmm:

On the other hand, any engagement in which a Flower corvette has to use that many shells means the Flower has either won before using them all or sunk before being able to use them all...

fatty · 08-28-08, 04:02 PM

These are indeed shells in their quick-ready mounts lined around the platform of the 4" cannon. Here is a pic of the real deal:

It might be less safe than say an armoured locker but the cordite propellants are stored seperately, and in a chance engagement with a surfaced sub speed trumps safety.

Sailor Steve · 08-29-08, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatty

...but the cordite propellants are stored seperately...

Actually if you look here you'll see the ammunition type is listed as 'Fixed', meaning it's all one piece, just like a modern bullet. Separate ammunition was mostly 6" and larger.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_4-40_mk19.htm

Other than that, I agree completely.

fatty · 08-29-08, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatty

...but the cordite propellants are stored seperately...

Actually if you look here you'll see the ammunition type is listed as 'Fixed', meaning it's all one piece, just like a modern bullet. Separate ammunition was mostly 6" and larger.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_4-40_mk19.htm

Other than that, I agree completely.

According to that site, the 4"/40 QF Mk XIX was only used on some Flowers. The more popular armament for Flowers was the WW1-era 4"/45 BL Mk IX which did use seperate ammunition.

Jimbuna · 08-29-08, 08:44 AM

The only thing I'm wondering is, how secure are the shells when the ship is rolling and pitching in a storm :hmm:

Letum · 08-29-08, 09:15 AM

Some things from the Flower class site that might interest:

The dammage left when U-379 was rammed and sunk by a Flower:

A sub in it's last moments. I think this is most likely U-444, but could also be U-432.

The photos are taken in 1943 from a Free French Flower Class that sank no U-boats, however, there
was a major convoy/wolf pack engagement that I am 90% sure this Flower class was involved in. It took
place in May '43 and U-444 and U-432 where both sunk wit 4 and 20 survivors respectively.

mcf1 · 08-29-08, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatty

These are indeed shells in their quick-ready mounts lined around the platform of the 4" cannon. Here is a pic of the real deal:

It might be less safe than say an armoured locker but the cordite propellants are stored seperately, and in a chance engagement with a surfaced sub speed trumps safety.

I'm getting nervous with that cannon barrel pointing straight at my face

, but at least it's sealed

Sailor Steve · 08-29-08, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatty

According to that site, the 4"/40 QF Mk XIX was only used on some Flowers. The more popular armament for Flowers was the WW1-era 4"/45 BL Mk IX which did use seperate ammunition.

How very interesting. I've studied these things for years - mainly the WWI era - and have always held that anything smaller than 6" was fixed. I stand corrected. That also explains what I've accepted as fact but sometimes wondered about: the early designation switch from BL to QF guns. Of course in 6" guns and larger it must be a different story.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Hoon · 09-05-08, 09:01 AM

I can see something conical* fitted to one end of those things but it doesn't look nearly long enough to be a projectile, so I'd think they're not shells, but cartridge cases.

Shell = The projectile.

Cartridge = The complete preparation of propellant, usually bagged and packed already in the case when kept on ships.

Cartridge case = The brass case the propellant is inside and which the shell fits on the end of. This is what you see in the picture.

Round = The complete assembly.

* perhaps nose caps to ease using mechanical means to move them around the ship.

08-28-08, 10:02 AM	#1
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Are these shells? Are those copper coloured things round the gun area shells? Thankyou for any help. __________________

08-28-08, 10:32 AM	#4
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Thanks. It is a Flower Class. __________________

08-29-08, 08:44 AM	#11
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,525 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The only thing I'm wondering is, how secure are the shells when the ship is rolling and pitching in a storm :hmm: __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

08-29-08, 09:15 AM	#12
Letum Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: York - UK Posts: 6,079 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Some things from the Flower class site that might interest: The dammage left when U-379 was rammed and sunk by a Flower: A sub in it's last moments. I think this is most likely U-444, but could also be U-432. The photos are taken in 1943 from a Free French Flower Class that sank no U-boats, however, there was a major convoy/wolf pack engagement that I am 90% sure this Flower class was involved in. It took place in May '43 and U-444 and U-432 where both sunk wit 4 and 20 survivors respectively. __________________

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08-28-08, 10:28 AM	#2
KeptinCranky Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,050 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Since it's a shielded gun and not a full turret I'd say yes. What manner of ship is that?

08-28-08, 12:08 PM	#7
KeptinCranky Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,050 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	That does seem a fairly unsafe way to stow live shells in a combat situation though :hmm: On the other hand, any engagement in which a Flower corvette has to use that many shells means the Flower has either won before using them all or sunk before being able to use them all...

08-28-08, 04:02 PM	#8
fatty The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 1,448 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	These are indeed shells in their quick-ready mounts lined around the platform of the 4" cannon. Here is a pic of the real deal: It might be less safe than say an armoured locker but the cordite propellants are stored seperately, and in a chance engagement with a surfaced sub speed trumps safety.

09-05-08, 09:01 AM	#15
Hoon Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 5 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	I can see something conical* fitted to one end of those things but it doesn't look nearly long enough to be a projectile, so I'd think they're not shells, but cartridge cases. Shell = The projectile. Cartridge = The complete preparation of propellant, usually bagged and packed already in the case when kept on ships. Cartridge case = The brass case the propellant is inside and which the shell fits on the end of. This is what you see in the picture. Round = The complete assembly. * perhaps nose caps to ease using mechanical means to move them around the ship.