Germany's party landscape is changing drastically

Skybird · 07-30-08, 04:34 AM

There were times when it would have been fair to say that Germany effectivly was a two-party system, like the US for example. These times are over. Additionally, Germans evade parties and cancel memberships in huge numbers. sinc ethe late 70s and early 80s, the number of all party memberships in total has halved. The trend is accelerating. I would say especially the young ones are totally fed up.

The first article is about the current party landscape over here, the deep and lasting fall of the Socialdemocrats, and the difficulties of future government forming. We already got a taste of the latter: the great coalition beeing deadlocked in a complete stalemate, which made a commentator remarking during the Obama visit that the senator was visiting a country without leadership. And the little governing and ruling that gets created by the government, is mediocre, and off reality all too often. What is worrying is that the ultra-left Die Linke, home of all-out-communists, defenders of GDR-Stasi-tryanny and old SED minds, is absorbing the better part of those functionaries leaving the SPD in high numbers.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...568758,00.html

the second article is about the boredom projected by German politicians, their lack of vision and emitting a motivational spirit, and the huge contrast to Obama. Probably Germans' yearning for such charcteristics is what made Obama so popular over here. We do not have a single person that even comes close to Obama, regarding inspirational abilities. The remarks on the differences in education in Germany and the US, influencing personalities in different ways, I found interesting.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...568876,00.html

Diopos · 07-30-08, 05:14 AM

As you said politicians lack vision!

I HAD A DREAM THAT THEY HAD A DREAM!!!

If there is no vision or driving force politics is reduced to administrative work and the "vacuum" is filled by... Berlouskoni!

Skybird · 07-30-08, 05:25 AM

Nobody held weapons at Italians' heads to vote for him. Like all voters, they are to be hold responsible for the choice they made. Who votes for Berlusconi has no right to complain - or to be surprised by what he does, for meanwhile there were plenty of opportunities in past years to learn what to expect from Berlusconi. So, I do not buy into that vacuum thing - Berlusconi was not sucked into office because nobody voted for him, but because enough people made a decision to bring him there. they had the choice to vote differently - or to not vote at all, which might be the best choice when being expected to choose between pleague and cholera. By not voting, you are refusing to give your legitimation to a system which is part of the problem.

Diopos · 07-30-08, 06:04 AM

I have tried it all!
abstained,
voted for a "major" political party,
casted a blank ballot,
voted for smaller party,
all of them at different ages and for different reasons
but always, always had an "empty" feeling afterwards.

Gorduz · 07-30-08, 05:12 PM

The first time i voted in the local election (a town of 50.000 inhabitants) I voted for the 3 or 4th largest party being just to the left of the conservatives. The biggest party(conservatives) wanted to make the town council with the second largest party(libertarians) but the libs decided to raise the stakes, and the coservatives gut fed up and went to the left. So because both the parties to the left of the conservatives had made a good election we had the first conservative, left council in many years

I was very happy with my choice then..

UnderseaLcpl · 07-31-08, 01:09 AM

Fascinating perspective on Germany's sociopolitical situation skybird. I wish I knew enough about German society to fully grasp these articles' import. Research time!

On a semi-related note, France has been getting uppity lately. Seeing as how Germany is the world leader in France-invasions, is there any hope that these political trends might trigger another one?:rotfl:

07-31-08, 01:36 AM

German 1: I'm bored, what do you want to do?
German 2: I don't know, what do you want to do?
German 1: I don't know. Those Frenchies have sure been getting uppity lately. Maybe we should invade again?
German 2: Watch anything good lately?
German 1: Nah.
German 2: Lets do it.

Seriously though, good article. I never hear much about German politics, it's nice to see what's going on.

August · 07-31-08, 11:09 AM

I've never understood the European penchant for voting for a party as opposed to an individual.

Skybird · 07-31-08, 02:12 PM

One week or ten days ago, there was a very interesting docu about French units in afghanistan. actually, they are being held in high esteem by the americans and are beside the British the preferred choice of US commanders to line up with in joint operations. both sides - normal grunts, no PC officers - said that they cooperate very well and trust each other's reliability and efficiency. Also, in 91 it were French light recce units taking the lead in the outer west due to their immense mobility. and in the "war in terror" (what a braindead whrase...) , the french counterterrorism intelligence proved to be inevitable for many American successes, and has been confirmed many times to be at last as tough as the american intel operations. France is a heavyweight, in these regards - no matter who currently are presidents in the US and France. retorics may have been friendly or hostile, but the intel cooperation always was very tight and substantial.

If you have a problem with french policies, adress their politicians, leave the soldiers out of it. They obey politician's orders, like American soldiers do. Always mocking about French army is as if I would mock about the US army grunt for the mistakes made by Georgie. And I never did that!

UnderseaLcpl · 07-31-08, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

One week or ten days ago, there was a very interesting docu about French units in afghanistan. actually, they are being held in high esteem by the americans and are beside the British the preferred choice of US commanders to line up with in joint operations. both sides - normal grunts, no PC officers - said that they cooperate very well and trust each other's reliability and efficiency. Also, in 91 it were French light recce units taking the lead in the outer west due to their immense mobility. and in the "war in terror" (what a braindead whrase...) , the french counterterrorism intelligence proved to be inevitable for many American successes, and has been confirmed many times to be at last as tough as the american intel operations. France is a heavyweight, in these regards - no matter who currently are presidents in the US and France. retorics may have been friendly or hostile, but the intel cooperation always was very tight and substantial.

If you have a problem with french policies, adress their politicians, leave the soldiers out of it. They obey politician's orders, like American soldiers do. Always mocking about French army is as if I would mock about the US army grunt for the mistakes made by Georgie. And I never did that!

<sigh> Come on man. It was a jab at Germany, not France. France has a martial tradition dating back to the times when they were "Gauls" and can hardly be considered a "weak" nation by anyone who isn't blinded by American patriotism. If America, with its' foreign policy at the time, had been where France was in WW2, we wouldn't have lasted any longer. Neither would Britain.

I know that poking fun at the Germany's Nazi regime (well, even mentioning it,really, is not popular in Germany) but it is popular elsewhere where we seek to make fun of Germans for their seemingly unparalleled efficiency and work ethic. The ridiculously rapid recovery of Germany from WW1, especially given the brutal Versailles treaty, and WW2, given that part of your country and half of your once-and present capital of Berlin were occupied by the Soviets, does make other people jealous. If we can't make fun of you for failures, we make fun of you for succeses.

Do you get the joke now?

Skybird · 08-01-08, 05:58 AM

Ehem - Bashing France and ridicukle it'S military has proven to be a popular entertainment in this forum over the years, anbd very often it has not been meant friendly. That'S why my reply, Lance.

Platapus · 08-01-08, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

I've never understood the European penchant for voting for a party as opposed to an individual.

In our own way we have that here in America when we have voters who always vote straight party tickets irrespective of the individual.

I remember in the old "lever" voting machines there was a single lever that would cast all your votes for you based on party.

07-30-08, 04:34 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,603 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Germany's party landscape is changing drastically There were times when it would have been fair to say that Germany effectivly was a two-party system, like the US for example. These times are over. Additionally, Germans evade parties and cancel memberships in huge numbers. sinc ethe late 70s and early 80s, the number of all party memberships in total has halved. The trend is accelerating. I would say especially the young ones are totally fed up. The first article is about the current party landscape over here, the deep and lasting fall of the Socialdemocrats, and the difficulties of future government forming. We already got a taste of the latter: the great coalition beeing deadlocked in a complete stalemate, which made a commentator remarking during the Obama visit that the senator was visiting a country without leadership. And the little governing and ruling that gets created by the government, is mediocre, and off reality all too often. What is worrying is that the ultra-left Die Linke, home of all-out-communists, defenders of GDR-Stasi-tryanny and old SED minds, is absorbing the better part of those functionaries leaving the SPD in high numbers. http://www.spiegel.de/international/...568758,00.html the second article is about the boredom projected by German politicians, their lack of vision and emitting a motivational spirit, and the huge contrast to Obama. Probably Germans' yearning for such charcteristics is what made Obama so popular over here. We do not have a single person that even comes close to Obama, regarding inspirational abilities. The remarks on the differences in education in Germany and the US, influencing personalities in different ways, I found interesting. http://www.spiegel.de/international/...568876,00.html __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 07-30-08 at 04:47 AM.

07-30-08, 05:14 AM	#2
Diopos Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Athens, the original one. Posts: 1,226 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	As you said politicians lack vision! I HAD A DREAM THAT THEY HAD A DREAM!!! If there is no vision or driving force politics is reduced to administrative work and the "vacuum" is filled by... Berlouskoni! __________________ - Oh God! They're all over the place! CRASH DIVE!!! - Ehm... we can't honey. We're in the car right now. - What?... er right... Doesn't matter! We'll give it a try anyway!

07-30-08, 05:25 AM	#3
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,603 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Nobody held weapons at Italians' heads to vote for him. Like all voters, they are to be hold responsible for the choice they made. Who votes for Berlusconi has no right to complain - or to be surprised by what he does, for meanwhile there were plenty of opportunities in past years to learn what to expect from Berlusconi. So, I do not buy into that vacuum thing - Berlusconi was not sucked into office because nobody voted for him, but because enough people made a decision to bring him there. they had the choice to vote differently - or to not vote at all, which might be the best choice when being expected to choose between pleague and cholera. By not voting, you are refusing to give your legitimation to a system which is part of the problem. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

07-30-08, 06:04 AM	#4
Diopos Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Athens, the original one. Posts: 1,226 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	I have tried it all! abstained, voted for a "major" political party, casted a blank ballot, voted for smaller party, all of them at different ages and for different reasons but always, always had an "empty" feeling afterwards. __________________ - Oh God! They're all over the place! CRASH DIVE!!! - Ehm... we can't honey. We're in the car right now. - What?... er right... Doesn't matter! We'll give it a try anyway!

07-30-08, 05:12 PM	#5
Gorduz Engineer Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Norway Posts: 210 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I have had a good feeling once The first time i voted in the local election (a town of 50.000 inhabitants) I voted for the 3 or 4th largest party being just to the left of the conservatives. The biggest party(conservatives) wanted to make the town council with the second largest party(libertarians) but the libs decided to raise the stakes, and the coservatives gut fed up and went to the left. So because both the parties to the left of the conservatives had made a good election we had the first conservative, left council in many years I was very happy with my choice then.. __________________ 21. MTB skv. Attacks without warning.

07-31-08, 01:09 AM	#6
UnderseaLcpl Silent Hunter Join Date: May 2008 Location: Storming the beaches! Posts: 4,254 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Fascinating perspective on Germany's sociopolitical situation skybird. I wish I knew enough about German society to fully grasp these articles' import. Research time! On a semi-related note, France has been getting uppity lately. Seeing as how Germany is the world leader in France-invasions, is there any hope that these political trends might trigger another one?:rotfl: __________________ I stole this sig from Task Force

07-31-08, 01:36 AM	#7
orwell Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	German 1: I'm bored, what do you want to do? German 2: I don't know, what do you want to do? German 1: I don't know. Those Frenchies have sure been getting uppity lately. Maybe we should invade again? German 2: Watch anything good lately? German 1: Nah. German 2: Lets do it. Seriously though, good article. I never hear much about German politics, it's nice to see what's going on.

07-31-08, 11:09 AM	#8
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,197 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I've never understood the European penchant for voting for a party as opposed to an individual. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

07-31-08, 02:12 PM	#9
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,603 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	One week or ten days ago, there was a very interesting docu about French units in afghanistan. actually, they are being held in high esteem by the americans and are beside the British the preferred choice of US commanders to line up with in joint operations. both sides - normal grunts, no PC officers - said that they cooperate very well and trust each other's reliability and efficiency. Also, in 91 it were French light recce units taking the lead in the outer west due to their immense mobility. and in the "war in terror" (what a braindead whrase...) , the french counterterrorism intelligence proved to be inevitable for many American successes, and has been confirmed many times to be at last as tough as the american intel operations. France is a heavyweight, in these regards - no matter who currently are presidents in the US and France. retorics may have been friendly or hostile, but the intel cooperation always was very tight and substantial. If you have a problem with french policies, adress their politicians, leave the soldiers out of it. They obey politician's orders, like American soldiers do. Always mocking about French army is as if I would mock about the US army grunt for the mistakes made by Georgie. And I never did that! __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-01-08, 05:58 AM	#11
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,603 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Ehem - Bashing France and ridicukle it'S military has proven to be a popular entertainment in this forum over the years, anbd very often it has not been meant friendly. That'S why my reply, Lance. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode