Try to explain this!

tomfon · 04-11-08, 06:42 PM

October 1944,North Atlantic,Type VIIC41.
I am in pursue of a convoy, instead a task force comes into view. I dive. I am in perfect position to torpedo the bogue class escort carrier. It sinks! The destroyers come after me and despite the damages i manage to finally slip away after almost 2 hours.
It was then when my sonarman reported contacts: port side, 270deg, convoy closing. What happens now is that the destroyers start pinging me! I was at 200meters running at silent mode, speed 2 knots but still, it wasn't enough for crying out loud!

Jesus! I had to face 3 destroyers and had no luck against those hedgehogs...

I know that GWX adds historical "weight" to SH3 and that it restores its realism level to its maximum but (i) the apparent ability of the destroyers to find a Uboat despite how deep it lies and (ii) the laser-guided hedgehog depth charges seem to be extra-ordinary aspects for me(at least for the time being).

Yes! I have read the manual: "Try to avoid task forces... Crew too experienced..."
"... if you simply lie in front of a convoy destroyers will find you..."

So, here we go. How realistic is for the destroyers being able to find a Uboat at 200meters when it is moving at 2 knots? Was this possible (and not probable) at that time?
Were the depth charges so accurate?

I don't know but staying alive after attacking a task force and being discovered by the convoys' escort destroyers despite the high stealth measures is too much for a veteran commander like my Kapitanleutnant...

I am just trying to understand how GWX works.

Nevertheless.............. LOCK AND LOLL & SINK'EM ALL

Umfuld · 04-11-08, 07:26 PM

If they really were hedgehogs then it must be later on in the war, right? I never make it that far so I can't offer any advice

tomfon · 04-11-08, 07:33 PM

I think hedgehogs were the ones that formed a ring in the air after their launch. This is what i see through the event camera very often since the beginning of 1944.

bracer · 04-11-08, 07:38 PM

Hey!

Correct me if i'm wrong but I think those 2kts is enough for the escorts to be able to hear you, I don't know how that deep depth should affect their ability to hear you in real life, but in sh3?
I think 0-1kts at around 50 rpm is the only way to be on the safe side when there is escorts coming at you.
How far away were the destroyers when they found you?

About the hedgehogs, I think they should be pretty accurate about your position, but when it comes to the depth of the target I do not know how accurate destroyers were during the time being.
Does anyone know how destroyers calculated a uboat's depth??

/Bracer

04-11-08, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomfon

October 1944,North Atlantic,Type VIIC41.
I am in pursue of a convoy, instead a task force comes into view. I dive. I am in perfect position to torpedo the bogue class escort carrier. It sinks! The destroyers come after me and despite the damages i manage to finally slip away after almost 2 hours.
It was then when my sonarman reported contacts: port side, 270deg, convoy closing. What happens now is that the destroyers start pinging me! I was at 200meters running at silent mode, speed 2 knots but still, it wasn't enough for crying out loud!

Jesus! I had to face 3 destroyers and had no luck against those hedgehogs...

I know that GWX adds historical "weight" to SH3 and that it restores its realism level to its maximum but (i) the apparent ability of the destroyers to find a Uboat despite how deep it lies and (ii) the laser-guided hedgehog depth charges seem to be extra-ordinary aspects for me(at least for the time being).

Yes! I have read the manual: "Try to avoid task forces... Crew too experienced..."
"... if you simply lie in front of a convoy destroyers will find you..."

So, here we go. How realistic is for the destroyers being able to find a Uboat at 200meters when it is moving at 2 knots? Was this possible (and not probable) at that time?
Were the depth charges so accurate?

I don't know but staying alive after attacking a task force and being discovered by the convoys' escort destroyers despite the high stealth measures is too much for a veteran commander like my Kapitanleutnant...

I am just trying to understand how GWX works.

Nevertheless.............. LOCK AND LOLL & SINK'EM ALL

Many Good Men in Real Life faced things We can only imagine.
GWX tries to implement that 'unknown' factor.
We can read all the Books,
research all the website,
interview actual veterens.
But it does not change several basic facts.

Those who died can't tell us why,
memories are not totally reliable,
and those who write a book tend to fog the facts or just don't remember
events exactly.

You expect to survive.
So did the real crews.
Check the ratio for those who came home
compaired to those who are on Eternal Patrol.

You get another chance.
They did not.

tomfon · 04-11-08, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by privateer

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomfon

October 1944,North Atlantic,Type VIIC41.
I am in pursue of a convoy, instead a task force comes into view. I dive. I am in perfect position to torpedo the bogue class escort carrier. It sinks! The destroyers come after me and despite the damages i manage to finally slip away after almost 2 hours.
It was then when my sonarman reported contacts: port side, 270deg, convoy closing. What happens now is that the destroyers start pinging me! I was at 200meters running at silent mode, speed 2 knots but still, it wasn't enough for crying out loud!

Jesus! I had to face 3 destroyers and had no luck against those hedgehogs...

I know that GWX adds historical "weight" to SH3 and that it restores its realism level to its maximum but (i) the apparent ability of the destroyers to find a Uboat despite how deep it lies and (ii) the laser-guided hedgehog depth charges seem to be extra-ordinary aspects for me(at least for the time being).

Yes! I have read the manual: "Try to avoid task forces... Crew too experienced..."
"... if you simply lie in front of a convoy destroyers will find you..."

So, here we go. How realistic is for the destroyers being able to find a Uboat at 200meters when it is moving at 2 knots? Was this possible (and not probable) at that time?
Were the depth charges so accurate?

I don't know but staying alive after attacking a task force and being discovered by the convoys' escort destroyers despite the high stealth measures is too much for a veteran commander like my Kapitanleutnant...

I am just trying to understand how GWX works.

Nevertheless.............. LOCK AND LOLL & SINK'EM ALL

Many Good Men in Real Life faced things We can only imagine.
GWX tries to implement that 'unknown' factor.
We can read all the Books,
research all the website,
interview actual veterens.
But it does not change several basic facts.

Those who died can't tell us why,
memories are not totally reliable,
and those who write a book tend to fog the facts or just don't remember
events exactly.

You expect to survive.
So did the real crews.
Check the ratio for those who came home
compaired to those who are on Eternal Patrol.

You get another chance.
They did not.

Maybe i was misunderstood. I am not trying to critisize GWX. As i said i am just trying to understand how GWX works. That's all.

bracer: If i remember correctly it was less than 2km.

04-11-08, 08:17 PM

I understand your views.
And I should have also stated:

The SH3 Game Engine only allows so much sway, shall we call it?
Several problems with the AI.

AI should be defined as Actually Ignorent.
To many routines to control a REAL AI are missing.

How many ships, in RL, could SEE through land?
How many actually tried cutting a land mass in half?
And on and on.

Not all the reactions you see in SH3 are GWX related!

tomfon · 04-11-08, 08:23 PM

[quote=privateer
Not all the reactions you see in SH3 are GWX related![/quote]
Thanks. Now i begin to understand!

Umfuld · 04-11-08, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bracer

I think 0-1kts at around 50 rpm is the only way to be on the safe side when there is escorts coming at you.

As far as I know you are silent if you keep it under 100RPM. And GW set it so when you go to silent running it puts you so you are under 100RPM.

tomfon · 04-11-08, 08:31 PM

The problem is that below 150meters the Uboat can't hold its depth when moving with less than 2 knots.
I think 2knots is 500 rounds per min.

bracer · 04-11-08, 08:42 PM

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104377

If you haven't read this sticky thread by Ducimus then give it a minute.
It's really good and informing!

And according to that info and if it is based on real life they should realisticly have a small chance of hearing you in the situation you were in: three destroyers closing in from your port side scaning the area infront of the convoj, they are probably alerted since you sunk a carrier two hours earlier in the nearby area and you running at 200 metres around 100rpms and exposing your port side to the sonar.

Sounds realistic enough IMHO for a guy with small knowledge about ASW.

/Bracer

bracer · 04-11-08, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umfuld

Quote:

Originally Posted by bracer

I think 0-1kts at around 50 rpm is the only way to be on the safe side when there is escorts coming at you.

As far as I know you are silent if you keep it under 100RPM. And GW set it so when you go to silent running it puts you so you are under 100RPM.

I'm pretty sure that you need to be closer 50rpm to stay silent enough to avoid the escorts, I think so both because of experiences in SH3 and that I've read it somewhere. I always go to helmsmans view and set the speed with the speed dial and check that the rpms get as close to 50 as possible....

tomfon · 04-11-08, 08:48 PM

Thanks!

I will also try to keep in mind what privateer said: "AI : Actually Ignorent"

tomfon · 04-11-08, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bracer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umfuld

Quote:

Originally Posted by bracer

I think 0-1kts at around 50 rpm is the only way to be on the safe side when there is escorts coming at you.

As far as I know you are silent if you keep it under 100RPM. And GW set it so when you go to silent running it puts you so you are under 100RPM.

I'm pretty sure that you need to be closer 50rpm to stay silent enough to avoid the escorts, I think so both because of experiences in SH3 and that I've read it somewhere. I always go to helmsmans view and set the speed with the speed dial and check that the rpms get as close to 50 as possible....

Yeah. 50rpm means that you are silent. I have to remember that.
But if i set "rig for silent running" wouldn't GW set the rpm to 50?

bracer · 04-11-08, 09:01 PM

IIRC "silent running" in GWX sets it at 2kts at ca 100rpm... You have to slow it down further manually with the speed dial....

Of course I can't swear that the difference you get in game by reducing rpms to 50 from 100 is a matter of life and death!!
But I do believe so

Sink em all...

04-11-08, 06:42 PM	#1
tomfon Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: CK7662 Posts: 918 Downloads: 178 Uploads: 4	Try to explain this! October 1944,North Atlantic,Type VIIC41. I am in pursue of a convoy, instead a task force comes into view. I dive. I am in perfect position to torpedo the bogue class escort carrier. It sinks! The destroyers come after me and despite the damages i manage to finally slip away after almost 2 hours. It was then when my sonarman reported contacts: port side, 270deg, convoy closing. What happens now is that the destroyers start pinging me! I was at 200meters running at silent mode, speed 2 knots but still, it wasn't enough for crying out loud! Jesus! I had to face 3 destroyers and had no luck against those hedgehogs... I know that GWX adds historical "weight" to SH3 and that it restores its realism level to its maximum but (i) the apparent ability of the destroyers to find a Uboat despite how deep it lies and (ii) the laser-guided hedgehog depth charges seem to be extra-ordinary aspects for me(at least for the time being). Yes! I have read the manual: "Try to avoid task forces... Crew too experienced..." "... if you simply lie in front of a convoy destroyers will find you..." So, here we go. How realistic is for the destroyers being able to find a Uboat at 200meters when it is moving at 2 knots? Was this possible (and not probable) at that time? Were the depth charges so accurate? I don't know but staying alive after attacking a task force and being discovered by the convoys' escort destroyers despite the high stealth measures is too much for a veteran commander like my Kapitanleutnant... I am just trying to understand how GWX works. Nevertheless.............. LOCK AND LOLL & SINK'EM ALL

04-11-08, 07:26 PM	#2
Umfuld Captain Join Date: May 2006 Location: USA Posts: 503 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	If they really were hedgehogs then it must be later on in the war, right? I never make it that far so I can't offer any advice __________________ Type VIIB = The Truth

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04-11-08, 07:33 PM	#3
tomfon Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: CK7662 Posts: 918 Downloads: 178 Uploads: 4	I think hedgehogs were the ones that formed a ring in the air after their launch. This is what i see through the event camera very often since the beginning of 1944.

04-11-08, 07:38 PM	#4
bracer Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 797 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Hey! Correct me if i'm wrong but I think those 2kts is enough for the escorts to be able to hear you, I don't know how that deep depth should affect their ability to hear you in real life, but in sh3? I think 0-1kts at around 50 rpm is the only way to be on the safe side when there is escorts coming at you. How far away were the destroyers when they found you? About the hedgehogs, I think they should be pretty accurate about your position, but when it comes to the depth of the target I do not know how accurate destroyers were during the time being. Does anyone know how destroyers calculated a uboat's depth?? /Bracer

04-11-08, 08:17 PM	#7
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I understand your views. And I should have also stated: The SH3 Game Engine only allows so much sway, shall we call it? Several problems with the AI. AI should be defined as Actually Ignorent. To many routines to control a REAL AI are missing. How many ships, in RL, could SEE through land? How many actually tried cutting a land mass in half? And on and on. Not all the reactions you see in SH3 are GWX related!

04-11-08, 08:23 PM	#8
tomfon Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: CK7662 Posts: 918 Downloads: 178 Uploads: 4	[quote=privateer Not all the reactions you see in SH3 are GWX related![/quote] Thanks. Now i begin to understand!

04-11-08, 08:31 PM	#10
tomfon Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: CK7662 Posts: 918 Downloads: 178 Uploads: 4	The problem is that below 150meters the Uboat can't hold its depth when moving with less than 2 knots. I think 2knots is 500 rounds per min.

04-11-08, 08:42 PM	#11
bracer Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 797 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104377 If you haven't read this sticky thread by Ducimus then give it a minute. It's really good and informing! And according to that info and if it is based on real life they should realisticly have a small chance of hearing you in the situation you were in: three destroyers closing in from your port side scaning the area infront of the convoj, they are probably alerted since you sunk a carrier two hours earlier in the nearby area and you running at 200 metres around 100rpms and exposing your port side to the sonar. Sounds realistic enough IMHO for a guy with small knowledge about ASW. /Bracer

04-11-08, 08:48 PM	#13
tomfon Grey Wolf Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: CK7662 Posts: 918 Downloads: 178 Uploads: 4	Thanks! I will also try to keep in mind what privateer said: "AI : Actually Ignorent"

04-11-08, 09:01 PM	#15
bracer Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 797 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	IIRC "silent running" in GWX sets it at 2kts at ca 100rpm... You have to slow it down further manually with the speed dial.... Of course I can't swear that the difference you get in game by reducing rpms to 50 from 100 is a matter of life and death!! But I do believe so Sink em all...