New Torpedoes

[andycaccia]

Hi mates!
This is my first topic. I'd like to make new torpedoes for the upcoming cold war mod, and since we have a pair of working submarines I thought it was the right time for creating new kinds of torpedoes. My first experiment would be in modifying an existing torpedo i.e a Mk18 and make it a passive homing one using the guidance system of the Mk27 Cutie.

Is it possible??

[M. Sarsfield]

I would assume that it's an easy change/addition to a config file. If we can add new ship models, you shoudl be able to crate a new torpedo model.

I found this site talking about homing torpedo development from 1940-1946:
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/1592/ustorp4.htm

... and post-war "heavy weight" torpedoes:
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/1592/ustorp5.htm


It looks like you are after the Mk. 31, which is a Mk.18 equipped with passive homing.

[keltos01]

you can change easily the type, warhead and speed/range as idid to model the ijn type 93 and 92 (e) but i don't know about homing, will look into it

[M. Sarsfield]

Here's an interesting tidbit that I found:

Prior to the mid-1960s Soviet submarines had diving depths of 650 to 1000 ft and submerged speeds under 30 knots.

This should help with some of the torpedo parameters. Also, early acoustic torpedoes had safety features that prevented them from doing a 360 on the launching boat and a minimum operating depth so that they would not attack nearby ASW/friendly surface ships or even the launching sub at persicope depth.

[andycaccia]

Thank you M. Sarsfield, you've brought precios infos!
I'm currently at work with s3d to understand how a torpedo works (in game) and how to make a new homing torpedo...I think the best results would be achieved by "adding" new torpedoes instead of transofrming existing ones.

I'll keep you informed!

If anyone has some clues or ideas....be my guest.

[keltos01]

transforming existing ones reduces dramatically the amount of work necessary, as you have to edit quite a few files referring to the torpedoes you're using including the sub's. I plan to do that to go along with the human drivable japanese sub we're currently working on : a junsen B type. Have you asked the russian team ? I got their november design for a sub, which in turn should help me with the Junsen B.

[andycaccia]

This is the first time I ask for help with torpedoes, and I haven't asked the russians yet. I know that if I re-work existing torpedoes I will avoid a lot of extra work, but the fact is that I doubt I will be albe of creating a new homing torpdo using the mk 18 or the mk16 as basis. I modded the mk27 to a mk16 type of torpedo, but the result was a failure. The model used by the game was the short mk27 one, and even the proprieties of the torpedo (explosive power, speed, propulsion etc) remained the mk27 ones.

Basically I need to start with a G7e T-V like homing torpedo.
Is it possible o change the torpedo model of the mk 27??

[M. Sarsfield]

More than likely the Mk 27 has sensor nodes on it, like the ASW ships and aircraft. The Mk. 18 probably lacks nodes, since it's a straight shooter (after turning to the proper course set by the TDC). If you sped up the Mk. 27 and improved it's listening range (out to 1,000 yards), it could mimic a Mk. 31 or other early post-war acoustic torpedo.

For a late Cold War acoustic torpedo, modify a Mk. 14, since they eventually returned to combustion engines for torpedo motors - albeit much quieter and faster. Also, the Mk. 14 should have at least one node on it, since it uses magnetic detonation and it has to sense the the target to detonate. Just change the node to passive/active homing.

Post-war torpedoes had other features, too, like noise filters and delayed receivers (for active homing), so that they would ignore false echoes from cavitation, the sea floor, etc. when sending out a ping. They also designed in more sophisticated search patterns where the torpedo would circle and/or fish-tail as it listend for and closed in on a target. The Mk. 27 is pretty unbiased as to what it locks on to and in addition to slow velocity, it has a slow turning speed.

WWII also saw the beginning development of wire-guided torpedoes, but they weren't refined until the 50's and 60's.

Ironically, Mk. 14's stayed in service until something like 1981. Probably for training purposes.

If you read through the two links that I sent you, you'll get all sorts of cool ideas for Cold War fish.

[andycaccia]

Thank you M. Sarsfield, your help is precious and really appreciated.
But the problem is that I do not know how to add passive homing guidance on a torpedo that does'n have it.

I'd like to show you how (but you'll probably already know this) things appear in S3d when I open the torpedoes_us.sim but I can't insert the screenshot, che you tell me how to do that? It seems that i can only insert web url, what if i have a saved image?

[M. Sarsfield]

You'll need to post it to a server and then insert the url in your post. I have a private server that I usually post pictures to, but the other guys in here can provide some suggestions for public posting.

[andycaccia]

Yes, I feared this...oh well, it wasn't essential anyway.
I have to reinstall sh4, and then I will do some testing wit torpedoes.

[CinC Battleforce]

The USN developed the Mk 18 into an acustic homing torpedo. The Mk 28 was actually aboard subs that were working around Japan in 1945. I am so new to this game, so I don't know how to mod a torpedo, but Like the USS Batfish on her 7th War Patrol around Kyushu Island in 1945, I would love to have the Mk 28 torpedo.

The USN Mk 28 Torpedo had the following stats

Range: 4,000 yards (3,650 meters)
Speed: 19.6 knots
Warhead: 585 lbs of Torpex
Diameter 21 inches (53.3 cm)
Length: 20 ft 6 in (6.248 m)
Weight: 2,800 lbs
Poer: Electric Battery
(like the Mk 27, the 28 used acustic sounds from the enemy's ship to home in on)

The MK 18 had the following

Range: 4,000 yards (3,650 meters)
Speed: 29 knots
Warhead: 575 lbs of Torpex
Diameter 21 inches (53.3 cm)
Length: 20 ft 6 in (6.248 m)
Weight: 3,154 lbs
Power: Electric Battery

My question is can one of our talented modders make a torpedo we can add to the game using the Mk 18 as the base and giving it the homing ability of the Mk 27

[M. Sarsfield]

Got this from one of the website posted above...

The Mk.28 was a 21" x 246", 20 knot, submarine launched anti-surface vessel torpedo with a 585 lb warhead. It was equipped with passive homing and gyroscopic control which competed for rudder control. About 1750 of these torpedoes were produced by Westinghouse and Western Electric. Only fourteen were fired with four hits during WW II, but the torpedo remained in service until 1960.

I'm guessing that the devs felt it was under-utilized and didn't make any real difference in the war. Probably same thinking that caused them to leave out the Tench boats from the game.

[CinC Battleforce]

Bad thinking on their part. Both the Tench class boats and the Mk 28 torpedo were the state fo the art in 1945. And well they should have included both the boat and torpedo in the game just for the sake of being acurate.

[andycaccia]

Yes indeed it was a non accurate approach of the developers while making the game, as well as the same 450ft depth gauge on all boats when later gatos and all balaos had a 600ft one (fortunatly we have a mod to restore this). However a tench-class mod with start campaign in 1945 has been made. It uses the same balao model but tweaked a little in strength and with 2 torpedoes more in the forward reserve compartment.

It would be a nice adtition the mk 28 as you say, but i fear that adding new torpedoes is far more difficult than adding a new submarine.
I'm still working on this...