When to activate the position keeper?

hyperion2206 · 12-10-07, 11:27 AM

I have a question concerning the position keeper:

1. Do I really have to use it and if yes...
2. ...When do I have to activate it?

ATR-42 · 12-10-07, 12:35 PM

I use manual targeting, but i also use contact updates as well....
I do not use any "accuracy mods" but am considering them...

i have not used the PK since the game was released. subsquently i would occastionally miss. however, lately, i enter, AoB, determine speed, then determine range, then quickly turn on the PK.

then if you go to the attack map you will see if your solution is correct because the PK will put a white X where its plotting in real time. if your X matches with the target your going to hit your target.

i stumbled onto this by accident but find myself checking my solutions with the PK on and crosschecking the white X on the attack map. what im finding is that my ranges usually are off. Hasnt really bugged me until i noticed it in the past few weeks.

Im not sure if this is cheating or not, in a way i sort of wish i never discovered the moving X. Because if they line up, your not going to miss. On the other hand it bugs me that for my past 11 careers my range findings have been off which has likely been the cause of many misses.

Rockin Robbins · 12-10-07, 01:05 PM

Although the attack map does give you too much information (ship silhouettes instead of just positions, velocity vectors when you should determine target course and speed yourself), all this is fixed by Trigger Maru.

But checking the attack map itself is the same as the continuous checking of TDC/PK position against the real position of the target during a RL attack. Only after they achieved a continuously updated accurate impact point, just as you are doing by checking the attack map, did they shoot.

So NO! You're not cheating. If you want it to be more realistic, use Trigger Maru to bet rid of the silhouettes and velocity vectors.

As for needing to use the PK, hogwash! U-Boats didn't have a PK and they had a better hit/shoot record than we did. Check out WernerSobe's TDC/PK tactics stickied thread for my tutorial on the Dick O'Kane attack method for one way to sink ships without the PK.

jazman · 12-10-07, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

As for needing to use the PK, hogwash! U-Boats didn't have a PK and they had a better hit/shoot record than we did. Check out WernerSobe's TDC/PK tactics stickied thread for my tutorial on the Dick O'Kane attack method for one way to sink ships without the PK.

I have constant success using the O'Kane method (even shooting with high gyro angles), and dodgy results (mostly misses) using the PK. But I'm using map contact updates! With a 90-degree AoB the range doesn't matter, and that always seems to be my problem with the PK. (And even with map contat updates on, range isn't that precise with the ruler we have.)

My next step is to turn off map contact updates, because I think it's making it too easy for me to form a target track and get that perfect 90-degree AoB shot. I started experimenting with it over the weekend with the Saipan Convoy mission. I just sat there, lost and overwhelmed. I can see it's going to take a little bit of work.

ATR-42 · 12-10-07, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazman

My next step is to turn off map contact updates...

Thats what im starting to think about doing as well Jaz

Robbins.

thank you!! good call on TM, i may start looking into that.

Powerthighs · 12-10-07, 01:58 PM

1. You certainly don't have to use it. It's extremely useful to track a target over time and see if your solution appears correct. It also helps that it takes your sub's manuevering into account, which helps immensely because sitting at full stop is not realistic. I often use the PK to track a target, then turn it off at the last second and send bearings to specific parts of the ship, like O'Kane.

2. According to one of the devs in another post, you shouldn't have the PK on while taking measurements to be used with the auto speed/course estimation. After that, you can turn it on whenever you want. Once you have the speed and AOB entered, make sure to take one more range/bearing input and the solution that develops after that will be correct (within the error of your measurements, of course).

I highly recommend moving to no map updates once you feel ready. The process of estimating a solution, then using imperfect methods to verify it and refine it as the target approaches is one of the most enjoyable parts of the game. This is where using the PK to track helps a lot.

jazman · 12-10-07, 03:11 PM

I'm planning on looking at Hitman's tutorial on manual targetting with 100% realism.

12-10-07, 11:27 AM	#1
hyperion2206 Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Cologne, Germany Posts: 1,227 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	When to activate the position keeper? I have a question concerning the position keeper: 1. Do I really have to use it and if yes... 2. ...When do I have to activate it? __________________ Career of Captain Jack Shaftoe:

12-10-07, 12:35 PM	#2
ATR-42 Commodore Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Jersey Shore Posts: 606 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 6	I use manual targeting, but i also use contact updates as well.... I do not use any "accuracy mods" but am considering them... i have not used the PK since the game was released. subsquently i would occastionally miss. however, lately, i enter, AoB, determine speed, then determine range, then quickly turn on the PK. then if you go to the attack map you will see if your solution is correct because the PK will put a white X where its plotting in real time. if your X matches with the target your going to hit your target. i stumbled onto this by accident but find myself checking my solutions with the PK on and crosschecking the white X on the attack map. what im finding is that my ranges usually are off. Hasnt really bugged me until i noticed it in the past few weeks. Im not sure if this is cheating or not, in a way i sort of wish i never discovered the moving X. Because if they line up, your not going to miss. On the other hand it bugs me that for my past 11 careers my range findings have been off which has likely been the cause of many misses. __________________

12-10-07, 01:05 PM	#3
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	You may sleep well, ATR Although the attack map does give you too much information (ship silhouettes instead of just positions, velocity vectors when you should determine target course and speed yourself), all this is fixed by Trigger Maru. But checking the attack map itself is the same as the continuous checking of TDC/PK position against the real position of the target during a RL attack. Only after they achieved a continuously updated accurate impact point, just as you are doing by checking the attack map, did they shoot. So NO! You're not cheating. If you want it to be more realistic, use Trigger Maru to bet rid of the silhouettes and velocity vectors. As for needing to use the PK, hogwash! U-Boats didn't have a PK and they had a better hit/shoot record than we did. Check out WernerSobe's TDC/PK tactics stickied thread for my tutorial on the Dick O'Kane attack method for one way to sink ships without the PK. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

12-10-07, 03:11 PM	#7
jazman Commander Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Crush Depth Posts: 449 Downloads: 50 Uploads: 0	I'm planning on looking at Hitman's tutorial on manual targetting with 100% realism. __________________ "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." -- Chesterton

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12-10-07, 01:58 PM	#6
Powerthighs Beach Leaf Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 287 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	1. You certainly don't have to use it. It's extremely useful to track a target over time and see if your solution appears correct. It also helps that it takes your sub's manuevering into account, which helps immensely because sitting at full stop is not realistic. I often use the PK to track a target, then turn it off at the last second and send bearings to specific parts of the ship, like O'Kane. 2. According to one of the devs in another post, you shouldn't have the PK on while taking measurements to be used with the auto speed/course estimation. After that, you can turn it on whenever you want. Once you have the speed and AOB entered, make sure to take one more range/bearing input and the solution that develops after that will be correct (within the error of your measurements, of course). I highly recommend moving to no map updates once you feel ready. The process of estimating a solution, then using imperfect methods to verify it and refine it as the target approaches is one of the most enjoyable parts of the game. This is where using the PK to track helps a lot.