[TEC] Altering ship eqp files

tater · 07-27-07, 01:02 PM

Well, I suppose I should have tried this before, but the nodes seems to be generic, even if labeled for sailors (P nodes), DCs (W nodes), etc.

I put a DC rack on the stern of the trawler were a sailor had been. It was at an angle. Any way to rotate them in the DAT easily?

This bodes well, however for some things. Stay tuned.

tater

tater · 07-27-07, 01:11 PM

Though at a 45 degree angle, the DC rack still works.

OK, this will be slow, because we need to map the position of each crew, etc, but it means we can add DCs to anything, even merchants. The one I put on the side worked, but is a bad idea for a roll off, the AI lets them drop shallow and blow the crap out of the ship.

Still, this could be pretty cool. next will be a few armed fishing boats, etc...

I will figure this out, then make a pack of ships a la Bungo Pete.

tater

Jace11 · 07-27-07, 01:46 PM

Hmm interesting.. are you taking crew nodes and replacing the crew member with an ASW weapon...

If so I feel you may be onto something..

I have added new "W" nodes (used for ASW) in the past, but simply converting Crew nodes to W nodes may work.....

If they are blowing up shallow, then I suggest the weapon is not rigged into the ships AI...

You might try renaming the node by hex editing in the dat file, and sim files. You can also rotate them to the desired angle with the later versions of Pack3D..

It MAY work.. no guarentees though..

What I did was clone a cfg_W01 node in the asashio dat.., then rename it as cfg_W02 changed it coords to align it center deck, added it in the eqp file as a Y gun and it worked, but I have since tried to repeat it and can't..

Peto · 07-27-07, 01:56 PM

Awesome find guys!!!! Please--don't replace ALL the crewmen with K-Guns

!

Your revelation really does open up possibilities!

Salute!!!

Peto

tater · 07-27-07, 02:03 PM

I'm more in the historical bent, I'll leave uber escorts to someone else.

BTW, I can now arm fishing boats and sampans. They work.

The trick will be to make a few new boats that are justr names that point to the same ones we have now, then make only 1 or 2 armed. Right now there are 2 fishing boats, for example. I could make 8 copies of those 2, that are nothing more than a new name, and a cfg that points at the originals. Of the 8, ONE might be armed. We'd now see 1 in 10 armed. Another might have a hydrophone though, he can signal a nearby ASW asset...

The armed trawler has a functional DC at this point, but it tends to blow its own stern off when it drops shallow because it is slow. That will be the big trouble with DCs on some ships I bet. Of course part of that is the fact that DCs are overly powerful in game, I will retest with a mod of DCs that drops them towards a strength more like jap DCs, and less like US DCs.

I also chose to put the dual 5" gun from the Tribal Class DD on there. It seems to fit the best.

Peto · 07-27-07, 02:09 PM

How about instead of using a stern rack, you equip these boats with a Y-Gun with a small amount of ammo? That's not out of the realm of reality at all. It may require another Y-gun file though to allow for a smaller ammo loadout.

tater · 07-27-07, 02:27 PM

Jace, i am not terribly comfortable with the hex stuff. Oddly, some of the ships have W nodes to start with. I didn't convert any nodes, I just put a DC link (or a 20mm) on a P node.

tater

tater · 07-27-07, 03:08 PM

Is deleteing something from a dat terribly difficult?

I'd actually love to delete the sails from some of the sailing craft (in a clone). Luggers, etc had sails but often were used as coasters with the masts struck.

tater

Jace11 · 07-27-07, 03:43 PM

Right...

The art of dat file tweaking..

Expert I am not, but in the dat there are segements, 3D models have verticies data, planes, and texture data. Nodes have names, identifiers and x,y,z coords etc. Thing is if you can find the boundry you can copy a node and re-insert it, rename it, give it an original id # and move its location...

Can you delete a sail...

I bet yes.. in fact I deleted the rudder off the akitsu first before I figured out how to move it etc..

I would open the sampan or whatever in pack 3d and find the sail, ship models are made of seperate bits and as the sails are destructable they are probably a seperate 3d model...

delete the sail.. but Im worrried what would happen if you damage the sampan where the sail is.. I will maybe look at this stuff later during weekend, busy at the moment with the map mod... oh and I have my 1000 word report to do too, and i'm only 999 words short on that...

Peto · 07-27-07, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace11

Right...

The art of dat file tweaking..

I would open the sampan or whatever in pack 3d and find the sail, ship models are made of seperate bits and as the sails are destructable they are probably a seperate 3d model...

Can you guys tell me where I can get the software mentioned--Pack 3D? I'd like to have a look at that. It'd be something new for me to do on computer and who knows? I might actually accomplish something. Then again...LOL.

Cheers!

Peto

PS Jace11: Good Luck on the report

tater · 08-10-07, 12:34 AM

I've found out some very interesting things.

1. As I said, the nodes don't care what you stick on them, they are likely labeled for reference as far as I can tell. In other words an "A" node will fit a AAA nicely, but go ahead and put a K-gun there if you like. There are many P nodes (P=people), I have put guns, DC racks, etc on those, too. The only hard coded behavior I have noticed is that such alternate placements might not take any masking into account. Ie: a gun will shoot through a boathouse, etc. I'm willing to accept this in some cases.

2. Aircraft have loadouts. For anyone who has looked, this means the cfg file lists things like this:

Code:

[Loadout 1]
Name=1x500Kg Bombs
Type=3

[Loadout 2]
Name=4x100Kg Bombs
Type=1

[Loadout 3]
Name=Torpedo
Type=4

Leo and others have messed with figuring these out. They are a major PITA...

Here is the big thing:

3. SHIPS can have loadouts, too. The stock Tug has a Basic, and an Armed version.

So you can take the fishing boat, add

[Loadout 1]
Name=Armed
Type=1

to the cfg, then make an Armed loadout where 2 of the deck crew are replaced with 25mm guns. You now have a variant fishing boat with no extra files created, just replace the cfg and eqp files. Default load is "Basic" I assume. Alternate variant types should be somewhat straightforward. It's particularly useful for small craft and erzatz combatants that might have widely variable armament. We can make subchasers with fewer AAA, or AAA in place of the deck gun. There are many options here. I have a few in testing now...

4. It's EASY to make new variant ships of a whole new type (this is how Ducimus made "Bungo Pete"). In my campaign layers, I changed the Minesweeper (Roster cfg and Sea cfg) to "Type=1." I did the same for the Subchaser. Instead, I could have made a copy of each ship's cfg, eqp, sns, sil and shp files, changing all the names to the new type in a folder of the same name.

For example SCSubchaser could become SCSubchaser_escort. The new version would have all the file names changed to match. The new one would be type=1, and I could change the sensors, weapons, etc. I could make a few variants with different guns, etc. Add the name to the names file in Roster, and we get a new ship with no new models.

tater

tater · 08-10-07, 01:34 AM

For example:

Notice there are 2 types of each CV? One with the standard deck full of planes (a-historical), one without. There is only 1 ship, but different loadouts like a plane. I can make a CAP on deck (3 zeros), a strike package version...

That's just eye candy, obviously. We could make some DDs with Y or K throwers, others without. More or less AA versions. All kinds of possibilities.

tater · 08-10-07, 09:45 AM

Shows how parochial I am in my little campaign world, I thought this was really cool. Maybe it's old news from SH3.

tater

sergbuto · 08-10-07, 10:23 AM

tater,

Yes, these things are known from SH3 times. But the most important thing that you are having fun with the stuff.

The new thing in SH4 in addition to these is that now it is possible to set-up a new unit with a new eqp file but use the same DAT file. It is a nice way to have more units but keep down the game downloading time.

tater · 08-10-07, 10:27 AM

sergbuto, since such information is hard to come by:

if a loadout is not specified, does it pick randomly or use "basic?" It defaults to basic on the pulldown in a random group, for example.

07-27-07, 01:02 PM	#1
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	[TEC] Altering ship eqp files Well, I suppose I should have tried this before, but the nodes seems to be generic, even if labeled for sailors (P nodes), DCs (W nodes), etc. I put a DC rack on the stern of the trawler were a sailor had been. It was at an angle. Any way to rotate them in the DAT easily? This bodes well, however for some things. Stay tuned. tater

07-27-07, 03:43 PM	#9
Jace11 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK Posts: 683 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 1	Right... The art of dat file tweaking.. Expert I am not, but in the dat there are segements, 3D models have verticies data, planes, and texture data. Nodes have names, identifiers and x,y,z coords etc. Thing is if you can find the boundry you can copy a node and re-insert it, rename it, give it an original id # and move its location... Can you delete a sail... I bet yes.. in fact I deleted the rudder off the akitsu first before I figured out how to move it etc.. I would open the sampan or whatever in pack 3d and find the sail, ship models are made of seperate bits and as the sails are destructable they are probably a seperate 3d model... delete the sail.. but Im worrried what would happen if you damage the sampan where the sail is.. I will maybe look at this stuff later during weekend, busy at the moment with the map mod... oh and I have my 1000 word report to do too, and i'm only 999 words short on that... Last edited by Jace11; 07-27-07 at 03:58 PM.

08-10-07, 12:34 AM	#11
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	I've found out some very interesting things. 1. As I said, the nodes don't care what you stick on them, they are likely labeled for reference as far as I can tell. In other words an "A" node will fit a AAA nicely, but go ahead and put a K-gun there if you like. There are many P nodes (P=people), I have put guns, DC racks, etc on those, too. The only hard coded behavior I have noticed is that such alternate placements might not take any masking into account. Ie: a gun will shoot through a boathouse, etc. I'm willing to accept this in some cases. 2. Aircraft have loadouts. For anyone who has looked, this means the cfg file lists things like this: Code: [Loadout 1] Name=1x500Kg Bombs Type=3 [Loadout 2] Name=4x100Kg Bombs Type=1 [Loadout 3] Name=Torpedo Type=4 Leo and others have messed with figuring these out. They are a major PITA... Here is the big thing: 3. SHIPS can have loadouts, too. The stock Tug has a Basic, and an Armed version. So you can take the fishing boat, add [Loadout 1] Name=Armed Type=1 to the cfg, then make an Armed loadout where 2 of the deck crew are replaced with 25mm guns. You now have a variant fishing boat with no extra files created, just replace the cfg and eqp files. Default load is "Basic" I assume. Alternate variant types should be somewhat straightforward. It's particularly useful for small craft and erzatz combatants that might have widely variable armament. We can make subchasers with fewer AAA, or AAA in place of the deck gun. There are many options here. I have a few in testing now... 4. It's EASY to make new variant ships of a whole new type (this is how Ducimus made "Bungo Pete"). In my campaign layers, I changed the Minesweeper (Roster cfg and Sea cfg) to "Type=1." I did the same for the Subchaser. Instead, I could have made a copy of each ship's cfg, eqp, sns, sil and shp files, changing all the names to the new type in a folder of the same name. For example SCSubchaser could become SCSubchaser_escort. The new version would have all the file names changed to match. The new one would be type=1, and I could change the sensors, weapons, etc. I could make a few variants with different guns, etc. Add the name to the names file in Roster, and we get a new ship with no new models. tater Last edited by tater; 08-10-07 at 09:47 AM.

08-10-07, 01:34 AM	#12
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	For example: Notice there are 2 types of each CV? One with the standard deck full of planes (a-historical), one without. There is only 1 ship, but different loadouts like a plane. I can make a CAP on deck (3 zeros), a strike package version... That's just eye candy, obviously. We could make some DDs with Y or K throwers, others without. More or less AA versions. All kinds of possibilities. Last edited by tater; 08-10-07 at 01:46 AM.

08-10-07, 10:23 AM	#14
sergbuto Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,331 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	tater, Yes, these things are known from SH3 times. But the most important thing that you are having fun with the stuff. The new thing in SH4 in addition to these is that now it is possible to set-up a new unit with a new eqp file but use the same DAT file. It is a nice way to have more units but keep down the game downloading time. __________________ Serg's SH4 and SH3 pages

07-27-07, 01:11 PM	#2
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Though at a 45 degree angle, the DC rack still works. OK, this will be slow, because we need to map the position of each crew, etc, but it means we can add DCs to anything, even merchants. The one I put on the side worked, but is a bad idea for a roll off, the AI lets them drop shallow and blow the crap out of the ship. Still, this could be pretty cool. next will be a few armed fishing boats, etc... I will figure this out, then make a pack of ships a la Bungo Pete. tater

07-27-07, 01:46 PM	#3
Jace11 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK Posts: 683 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 1	Hmm interesting.. are you taking crew nodes and replacing the crew member with an ASW weapon... If so I feel you may be onto something.. I have added new "W" nodes (used for ASW) in the past, but simply converting Crew nodes to W nodes may work..... If they are blowing up shallow, then I suggest the weapon is not rigged into the ships AI... You might try renaming the node by hex editing in the dat file, and sim files. You can also rotate them to the desired angle with the later versions of Pack3D.. It MAY work.. no guarentees though.. What I did was clone a cfg_W01 node in the asashio dat.., then rename it as cfg_W02 changed it coords to align it center deck, added it in the eqp file as a Y gun and it worked, but I have since tried to repeat it and can't..

07-27-07, 01:56 PM	#4
Peto Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The details of my life are quite inconsequential Posts: 1,049 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Awesome find guys!!!! Please--don't replace ALL the crewmen with K-Guns ! Your revelation really does open up possibilities! Salute!!! Peto

07-27-07, 02:03 PM	#5
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	I'm more in the historical bent, I'll leave uber escorts to someone else. BTW, I can now arm fishing boats and sampans. They work. The trick will be to make a few new boats that are justr names that point to the same ones we have now, then make only 1 or 2 armed. Right now there are 2 fishing boats, for example. I could make 8 copies of those 2, that are nothing more than a new name, and a cfg that points at the originals. Of the 8, ONE might be armed. We'd now see 1 in 10 armed. Another might have a hydrophone though, he can signal a nearby ASW asset... The armed trawler has a functional DC at this point, but it tends to blow its own stern off when it drops shallow because it is slow. That will be the big trouble with DCs on some ships I bet. Of course part of that is the fact that DCs are overly powerful in game, I will retest with a mod of DCs that drops them towards a strength more like jap DCs, and less like US DCs. I also chose to put the dual 5" gun from the Tribal Class DD on there. It seems to fit the best.

07-27-07, 02:09 PM	#6
Peto Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The details of my life are quite inconsequential Posts: 1,049 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	How about instead of using a stern rack, you equip these boats with a Y-Gun with a small amount of ammo? That's not out of the realm of reality at all. It may require another Y-gun file though to allow for a smaller ammo loadout.

07-27-07, 02:27 PM	#7
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Jace, i am not terribly comfortable with the hex stuff. Oddly, some of the ships have W nodes to start with. I didn't convert any nodes, I just put a DC link (or a 20mm) on a P node. tater

07-27-07, 03:08 PM	#8
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Is deleteing something from a dat terribly difficult? I'd actually love to delete the sails from some of the sailing craft (in a clone). Luggers, etc had sails but often were used as coasters with the masts struck. tater

08-10-07, 09:45 AM	#13
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Shows how parochial I am in my little campaign world, I thought this was really cool. Maybe it's old news from SH3. tater

08-10-07, 10:27 AM	#15
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	sergbuto, since such information is hard to come by: if a loadout is not specified, does it pick randomly or use "basic?" It defaults to basic on the pulldown in a random group, for example.

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