(REQ) Get rid of the gunboats

OlegM · 05-28-07, 09:49 AM

Can SOMETHING be done about them annoying gunboats that are spawned as harbor defences all over the map? Those are modelled on some obscure Japanese river gunboats, that are:

a) ugly
b) unhistoric (used only in China), definitely NOT deep in the Pacific
c) harmless

I think that Japanese had like less than half a dozen of those anyway.

The game should have much MUCH more of Japanese subschasers - in fact patrol craft (PC) - and small minesweepers employed as harbor defences and even as convoy escorts. These were very numerous - in fact it's a pity we don't have more variants but the one for each (PC and MSW) in the game should suffice - and historicaly used in those roles. (Not to mention they look good too.)

05-28-07, 09:58 AM

Here. New version.

Go to \Data\Campaigns\Campaign
open (with notepad) Jap_HarborTraffic.mis

change all:

[RndGroup xy.RndUnit x]
Type=0 > this sets this ship as generic patrol craft (50% it will be small gun boat, 50% it will be large gun boat)

to
[RndGroup xy.RndUnit x]
Class=SCSubchaser
Type=0

Example:
[RndGroup 79.RndUnit 1]
Type=0
Origin=Japan
Side=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19400101
No=1
Escort=false
SpawnProbability=100
CrewRating=2

change it to:
[RndGroup 79.RndUnit 1]
Class=SCSubchaser
Type=0
Origin=Japan
Side=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19400101
No=1
Escort=false
SpawnProbability=100
CrewRating=2

ReallyDedPoet · 05-28-07, 09:59 AM

Good suggestion

, maybe this could be done as part of a larger " Harbor Defence " mod, there was a thread a number of weeks about the previous, but I have not seen it since.

RDP

Graf · 05-28-07, 09:59 AM

Oleg,

I'm actually working on creating more historical ships present in the game. I'm replacing the lil' gunboats usually with Subchasers, placing the gunboats near China and along coastlines.

Also in progress are more historical patrols such as true patrols areas during the Philippines invasion of '41, invasion of the Dutch-East Indies, patrols in the Solomons '42, blockade of Truk during late '42, patrols in the Sea of Japan early '43, etc...etc...

OlegM · 05-28-07, 10:01 AM

OK Caesar this should work, thanks

ReallyDedPoet · 05-28-07, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graf

Oleg,

I'm actually working on creating more historical ships present in the game. I'm replacing the lil' gunboats usually with Subchasers, placing the gunboats near China and along coastlines.

Also in progress are more historical patrols such as true patrols areas during the Philippines invasion of '41, invasion of the Dutch-East Indies, patrols in the Solomons '42, blockade of Truk during late '42, patrols in the Sea of Japan early '43, etc...etc...

Nice

RDP

OlegM · 05-28-07, 10:11 AM

Good to see something CAN be done, and that something IS being done about this annoyance

I think someone in the dev team mixed up two kinds of Japanese gunboats. Japs had a handful of ugly river gunboats - that look just like those in the game - used to patrol Chinese rivers and coastline.

They also had subchasers and "proper" gunboats for ocean and coastal escort work. Subchasers (PC) are modelled in the game but very rarely used (game prefers either true destroyers, as escorts, or river gunboats, as harbor defense). "Proper" gunboats look very much like subchaser model in the game. Initially they didn't have sonars and/or depth charges, but had a gun more than subchasers. Otherwise they looked similar, and were employed as escorts. As the war went on some of them got DC racks (most of them were still without sonars though).

I think someone simply decided to use the river gunboat model in place of "proper" IJN gunboats in the Pacific.

Honestly, I don't even expect the game to model this to such detail, I'd be content just to get rid of them damn river gunboats on the Pacific, and have more subchasers BOTH as escorts and harbor defences.

05-28-07, 10:21 AM

I have spent few days (!) modding mission files. Changes:
- all merchants are filled with freight in stock files. I made them "randomly" filled with ammunition (internal cargo) or freight (internal cargo), and for external cargo ammo or freight or aircraft or tanks or trucks etc.

- all tankers are filled with freight in stock files (?!). I made them filled with fuel (now they explode really nice!) or freight (to simulate empty tankers).

- added subchasers to task forces and convoys

- added subchasers and destroyers to some task forces and convoys but did NOT position them as escorts. Why? To make them spwan in middle of convoy so it will be more difficult to stay submerged in the middle of convoy

- added more subchasers and more destroyers to harbors (some of them were really unguarded in stock) and positioned some of them closer to harbors (why? because in stock they were too far away and you could easily surface, destroy all docked ships with you deck gun, drink coffee and leave and they would be too far to notice you).

- solved error/bug with slow task forces in 1941 and 1942
see here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115105
thanks Yanaran

tater · 05-28-07, 10:31 AM

I changed the Subchaser and Minesweeper to unit type = 1 (Corvette).

I then replaced all the Patrol Craft with "GENERIC Corvette" except for coastal harbors on the mainland and SE asia (some of the SWPA).

Note that mcoca's bulk editor is a far superior tool to using notepad. You can literally open every campaign file and change things very specifically, even randomize between choices.

OlegM · 05-28-07, 10:32 AM

Sounds great Caesar, but Subchasers should not be part of task forces, they were too slow to keep up with true warships.

OlegM · 05-28-07, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

Note that mcoca's bulk editor is a far superior tool to using notepad. You can literally open every campaign file and change things very specifically, even randomize between choices.

Where do I get mcoca's editor?

05-28-07, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlegM

Sounds great Caesar, but Subchasers should not be part of task forces, they were too slow to keep up with true warships.

True, BUT:
1. In this game, task forces usualy go 11 kts
2. Most task forces in SH4 have tankers in group, so subhchasers are guarding those tankers

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlegM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

Note that mcoca's bulk editor is a far superior tool to using notepad. You can literally open every campaign file and change things very specifically, even randomize between choices.

Where do I get mcoca's editor?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...Mission+Editor

tater · 05-28-07, 10:50 AM

The fleet oilers should opnly be the large tanker, not the generic choice that the game uses. Also, the speed of those tankers was typoed, the large tanker should make 19 knots.

A TF either needs to have the oilers changed to keep up with a reasonable speed for a TF (15-18 knots cruising), or needs to be eliminated from the TFs. I eliminated them at first, but have gone back and altered the speed so some may have organic oilers. My layers have TFs usually making 15 or 16 knots. Some short hauls have them going faster.

Regardless, TFs don't need SCs, though a minesweeper might well be with them (they did double duty as ASW platforms).

My layers (still beta, but I'm thinking of releasing them since I have them in JSGME format) have DDs in TFs, and I eliminated the vast majority of DD escorts in current convoys. The stock game has 3-4 DDs per convoy, and a huge number of convoys even at points in the war where there were virtually no convoys except for invasion forces. While I reduced the NUMBER of DD escorts, I increased their skill. IJN warships should be consistantly well crewed, IMO. The minimal value I use for them is "competant" with "veteran" being very common, and a few "elites" thrown in to mix things up.

05-28-07, 09:49 AM	#1
OlegM Engineer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 214 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	(REQ) Get rid of the gunboats Can SOMETHING be done about them annoying gunboats that are spawned as harbor defences all over the map? Those are modelled on some obscure Japanese river gunboats, that are: a) ugly b) unhistoric (used only in China), definitely NOT deep in the Pacific c) harmless I think that Japanese had like less than half a dozen of those anyway. The game should have much MUCH more of Japanese subschasers - in fact patrol craft (PC) - and small minesweepers employed as harbor defences and even as convoy escorts. These were very numerous - in fact it's a pity we don't have more variants but the one for each (PC and MSW) in the game should suffice - and historicaly used in those roles. (Not to mention they look good too.)

05-28-07, 09:59 AM	#3
ReallyDedPoet Canadian Wolf Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada. The one and only, East Coast Posts: 10,888 Downloads: 946 Uploads: 5	Good suggestion, maybe this could be done as part of a larger " Harbor Defence " mod, there was a thread a number of weeks about the previous, but I have not seen it since. RDP __________________ Back in the Day

05-28-07, 09:59 AM	#4
Graf A-ganger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 72 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	Oleg, I'm actually working on creating more historical ships present in the game. I'm replacing the lil' gunboats usually with Subchasers, placing the gunboats near China and along coastlines. Also in progress are more historical patrols such as true patrols areas during the Philippines invasion of '41, invasion of the Dutch-East Indies, patrols in the Solomons '42, blockade of Truk during late '42, patrols in the Sea of Japan early '43, etc...etc... __________________ U-1119

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05-28-07, 09:58 AM	#2
Julius Caesar Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Here. New version. Go to \Data\Campaigns\Campaign open (with notepad) Jap_HarborTraffic.mis change all: [RndGroup xy.RndUnit x] Type=0 > this sets this ship as generic patrol craft (50% it will be small gun boat, 50% it will be large gun boat) to [RndGroup xy.RndUnit x] Class=SCSubchaser Type=0 Example: [RndGroup 79.RndUnit 1] Type=0 Origin=Japan Side=0 CargoExt=-1 CargoInt=-1 CfgDate=19400101 No=1 Escort=false SpawnProbability=100 CrewRating=2 change it to: [RndGroup 79.RndUnit 1] Class=SCSubchaser Type=0 Origin=Japan Side=0 CargoExt=-1 CargoInt=-1 CfgDate=19400101 No=1 Escort=false SpawnProbability=100 CrewRating=2

05-28-07, 10:01 AM	#5
OlegM Engineer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 214 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	OK Caesar this should work, thanks

05-28-07, 10:11 AM	#7
OlegM Engineer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 214 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Good to see something CAN be done, and that something IS being done about this annoyance I think someone in the dev team mixed up two kinds of Japanese gunboats. Japs had a handful of ugly river gunboats - that look just like those in the game - used to patrol Chinese rivers and coastline. They also had subchasers and "proper" gunboats for ocean and coastal escort work. Subchasers (PC) are modelled in the game but very rarely used (game prefers either true destroyers, as escorts, or river gunboats, as harbor defense). "Proper" gunboats look very much like subchaser model in the game. Initially they didn't have sonars and/or depth charges, but had a gun more than subchasers. Otherwise they looked similar, and were employed as escorts. As the war went on some of them got DC racks (most of them were still without sonars though). I think someone simply decided to use the river gunboat model in place of "proper" IJN gunboats in the Pacific. Honestly, I don't even expect the game to model this to such detail, I'd be content just to get rid of them damn river gunboats on the Pacific, and have more subchasers BOTH as escorts and harbor defences.

05-28-07, 10:21 AM	#8
Julius Caesar Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I have spent few days (!) modding mission files. Changes: - all merchants are filled with freight in stock files. I made them "randomly" filled with ammunition (internal cargo) or freight (internal cargo), and for external cargo ammo or freight or aircraft or tanks or trucks etc. - all tankers are filled with freight in stock files (?!). I made them filled with fuel (now they explode really nice!) or freight (to simulate empty tankers). - added subchasers to task forces and convoys - added subchasers and destroyers to some task forces and convoys but did NOT position them as escorts. Why? To make them spwan in middle of convoy so it will be more difficult to stay submerged in the middle of convoy - added more subchasers and more destroyers to harbors (some of them were really unguarded in stock) and positioned some of them closer to harbors (why? because in stock they were too far away and you could easily surface, destroy all docked ships with you deck gun, drink coffee and leave and they would be too far to notice you). - solved error/bug with slow task forces in 1941 and 1942 see here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115105 thanks Yanaran

05-28-07, 10:31 AM	#9
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	I changed the Subchaser and Minesweeper to unit type = 1 (Corvette). I then replaced all the Patrol Craft with "GENERIC Corvette" except for coastal harbors on the mainland and SE asia (some of the SWPA). Note that mcoca's bulk editor is a far superior tool to using notepad. You can literally open every campaign file and change things very specifically, even randomize between choices.

05-28-07, 10:32 AM	#10
OlegM Engineer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 214 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Sounds great Caesar, but Subchasers should not be part of task forces, they were too slow to keep up with true warships.

05-28-07, 10:50 AM	#13
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	The fleet oilers should opnly be the large tanker, not the generic choice that the game uses. Also, the speed of those tankers was typoed, the large tanker should make 19 knots. A TF either needs to have the oilers changed to keep up with a reasonable speed for a TF (15-18 knots cruising), or needs to be eliminated from the TFs. I eliminated them at first, but have gone back and altered the speed so some may have organic oilers. My layers have TFs usually making 15 or 16 knots. Some short hauls have them going faster. Regardless, TFs don't need SCs, though a minesweeper might well be with them (they did double duty as ASW platforms). My layers (still beta, but I'm thinking of releasing them since I have them in JSGME format) have DDs in TFs, and I eliminated the vast majority of DD escorts in current convoys. The stock game has 3-4 DDs per convoy, and a huge number of convoys even at points in the war where there were virtually no convoys except for invasion forces. While I reduced the NUMBER of DD escorts, I increased their skill. IJN warships should be consistantly well crewed, IMO. The minimal value I use for them is "competant" with "veteran" being very common, and a few "elites" thrown in to mix things up.